The Undetectable Infection

[chuck]

Yes I definitely agree that I need to be very careful now. I haven't taken antibiotics in a year, I sort of just got fed up and resigned myself to this not ever having had a clear diagnosis or treatment plan

What do you mean by 'I have a feeling that strep parasanguinis infection is misdiagnosed as a viral infection'? That it's a viral infection or that it was considered a viral infection but it's actually strep parasanguinis causing problems?

 

[Elph68]

What's the triple therapy you listed? Sorry I seem to have missed it, or do you mean 'Clarithromycin/erythromycin with minoxycyclene or augmentin duo forte or keflex'?

Vancomycin, ciprofloxican and augmentin duo forte for 4 weeks .....

I will send you my before and after bioscreen .... May help to convince your doctor ...

 

[chuck]

Vancomycin, ciprofloxican and augmentin duo forte for 4 weeks .....

I will send you my before and after bioscreen .... May help to convince your doctor ...

Thank you. My doctor isn't the hardest to convince because he's fairly open-minded and doesn't believe any of this is in my head so I'm lucky in that sense, but like most doctors, he's just not as up to speed with everything that's happening around what these bacteria are capable of doing.

 

[Hutan]

@chuck , you have been through a lot. Gut issues are such horrible symptoms.

Have you been tested for rickettsias and Ehrlichia/Anaplasma? There's a lab in Geelong that does this testing.

I found the Victorian Infectious Diseases Clinic at Royal Melbourne were good, specifically Karin Leder. She got paromomycin for me which may (or may not) have helped me get on top of amoebic parasites and so may have helped me get over the worst of my gut symptoms.

Do you have a good gastroenterologist now? I found Ashley Miller was good.

Do read up about ciprofloxacin before you take it. If you decide to go ahead with it, know the side effects so you can stop quickly if you get them. I had problems with it.

The Bioscreen analyses and the antibiotic treatment - it's interesting.

hope you can get some relief; let us know how you go

 

[chuck]

Thanks Hutan for those recommendations. I haven't been tested for rickettsias and Ehrlichia/Anaplasma. I don't know what either of those terms are.

I've consulted Paul Froomes in Melbourne. He's been OK, but as Elph68 pointed out, none of my ABX protocols have been long enough, and most specialists are siloed in their approach. The urologists don't know/care to advise on gut symptoms, and vice versa.

The urinary symptoms and leg pain and nerve issues running down my legs and feet are the worst of it, but no-one seems to give me an answer on what's going on.

 

[Hutan]

My family and I lived and travelled in Indonesia and Malaysia. We (I and 2 children) became sick shortly after returning to Melbourne with what was presumably a gastro flu followed by ME/CFS.

I've tested positive to a rickettsia bacteria (some are known as typhus). Our dogs in Malaysia had confirmed Ehrlichia/Anaplasma but I haven't been tested for that yet. Chronic infections do seem possible and I've read that there is a theory that viral infections can activate a latent rickettsial infection.

My son saw a professor in endocrinology last week; she ruled out a hormone problem but came up with the possibility of a tick borne infection without any suggestion from me. She was intending to contact her colleagues in the infectious diseases department to discuss it. Our symptoms have included the stomach pain, gas, reflux, diarrhea, twitches and nerve pain in the legs that you had, but not as relentlessly. We didn't have giardia but have tested positive to Blastocystis and Dientameoba.

So, the rickettsias are a possibility that might be worth exploring sometime. Vectors of rickettsias include a range of biting arthropods including bed bugs, fleas and ticks. Rickettsias are here in Australia too.

www.rickettsialab.org.au Australian Rickettsial Reference Lab

 

[chuck]

Thanks Hutan, that's helpful. Another thing to look into considering this all started after getting sick in Indonesia.

 

[Elph68]

Thank you. My doctor isn't the hardest to convince because he's fairly open-minded and doesn't believe any of this is in my head so I'm lucky in that sense, but like most doctors, he's just not as up to speed with everything that's happening around what these bacteria are capable of doing.

Hi Chuck,

Before and after the triple abx therapy ......

See the similarities?

I can also say our general symptoms are very much the same ....

 

[Elph68]

Yes I definitely agree that I need to be very careful now. I haven't taken antibiotics in a year, I sort of just got fed up and resigned myself to this not ever having had a clear diagnosis or treatment plan

What do you mean by 'I have a feeling that strep parasanguinis infection is misdiagnosed as a viral infection'? That it's a viral infection or that it was considered a viral infection but it's actually strep parasanguinis causing problems?

I suspect that when these viridan strep species take hold, we get sick .... sore throat, pain, malaise, stomach upset, headache etc. We go to the doc, they do swabs, they can't see puss on the tonsils etc. .... nothing .... so they call it a viral infection ....

I wish I had a lab that I could use to test some of this out ....

 

[Elph68]

Yes I definitely agree that I need to be very careful now. I haven't taken antibiotics in a year, I sort of just got fed up and resigned myself to this not ever having had a clear diagnosis or treatment plan

What do you mean by 'I have a feeling that strep parasanguinis infection is misdiagnosed as a viral infection'? That it's a viral infection or that it was considered a viral infection but it's actually strep parasanguinis causing problems?

The good thing is that you haven't had anything for a year. Even though they become resistant to abx. after about 6 months they turn off their resistance and forget about it .... So if you hit them just right, you can take the buggers out before they know what is killing them and turn their resistance back on ....

 

[chuck]

I'm simplifying, of course, but your argument is that kill the S. Parasanguinis = feel a lot better.

 

[chuck]

I spoke to my doctor today for his opinion about a combined medication protocol to treat my gut and other issues with the following caveats:

- Effectiveness against S. Parasanguinis group
- Effectiveness against E. Faecalis, E. Coli
- Incorporates anti-fungal medication during antibiotic therapy (e.g. Nystatin 2 tablets, 3/daily, pulsed fluconazole/itraconazole, due to the fact they stay within the body for several days/long term use can be detrimental to liver function)
- Ability for medications to penetrate into prostate tissue and lymphatic system
- Lowest risk of C.Diff /antibiotic associated diarrhea/colitis
- Taken for sufficient duration to treat infections fully and build antibiotic resistance (e.g. 1 week of macrolides increases S. Viridans antibiotic-resistance) so a 6-8 week treatment or longer as required.

He's going to do his due research and get back to me next week.

Thoughts?

 

[chuck]

Oh, another thing that may be of interest.

A week ago I got the drive again to tackle this all and try to fix what's going on by fixing my diet to low carb, high fat, moderate protein. I've started on a bunch of supplements (Co-Q 10, magnesium, fish oil, vitamin c, vitamin b6) and drinking a lot of homemade kefir (picked up some grains from Nourish Me Organics online), while I figure out what to do about prescription meds. And, now my throat has these white patches flaring up that look like thrush but aren't, sinuses are clogged, teeth/jaw in pain like I'm coming down with an upper respiratory tract infection, i.e. the common cold. Interesting because every time in the past I've tried to get past this stuff, this has flared up big time. It's like if the infective agent theory is true, then it's sitting latent at a constant level, until I try to fix it, and it does not like that one bit..

 

[Mark37]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for posting your situation, sorry to hear your health hasn't improved.

I'd be taking biofilm busting enzymes, I've read these can be 1000 times harder to eradicate than the bugs themselves.

I'd also be doing some serious replenishment of good bacteria. Someone will want to move into all that new real estate after the bastardos have been evicted. Be certain you get good tenants!

Here's a link l think elph would agree on. The strep you're targeting can return within 6 hours of being "cleansed" from the mouth. This is one tough mother, you want to handle this fight right.
http://www.perioexpertise.com/sites/default/files/ORAL BIOFILM_ Dr. Vanessa Blanc.pdf

My ordeal began overseas too. You mentioned a partner. Has she suffered any like symptoms?

Mark

 

[chuck]

Thanks Mark.

My partner hasn't suffered any like symptoms. How? I have no idea. I asked her to do a BioScreen and have only recently talked her into it.

I do regret that beach holiday to Indonesia now!

What biofilm busting enzymes are meant to be good? I've seen a few around but don't know what's what.

 

[Mark37]

Iv

Thanks Mark.

My partner hasn't suffered any like symptoms. How? I have no idea. I asked her to do a BioScreen and have only recently talked her into it.

I do regret that beach holiday to Indonesia now!

What biofilm busting enzymes are meant to be good? I've seen a few around but don't know what's what.

My partner is pretty well fine also.

Try this re biofilms.
http://www.advancedhealing.com/dr-ettingers-biofilm-protocol-for-lyme-and-gut-pathogens/

 

[Mark37]

I've

I've had good success with monolaurin and coconut oil.

 

[chuck]

I'm thinking of using PrescriptAssist, homemade kefir orally and enema to repopulate. I don't wanna go FMT again. Or if I did, I'd unscrupulously test for a suitable donor.

 

[chuck]

Thanks Mark. Isn't monolaurin isolated from coconut oil? So you can get it in tablets?

 

[Mark37]

Thanks Mark. Isn't monolaurin isolated from coconut oil? So you can get it in tablets?

Yes, it's essentially lauric acid. The tablets contain delayed release which helps you're antimicrobials hit their targets. It also has antiviral/yeast and reduces inflammation.

I've tried NAC, didn't do much for me, but I've read good things.

Try to get a couple of tbls of coconut oil at each meal. It is excellent for knocking down yeast, particularly candida.

I'd be over in Georgia now getting macrophages into me and my family if l truly knew what bugs were causing this. I'm unaware of anywhere that can help identify this. I believe that the combinations of particular pathogenic bugs in their biofilm community are what the problem is. Until l can identify them l'm cramming them out with goodguys and, as best as possible, not supplying any fuel for them . The prostate is a great venue for them to party.