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THE STAGES OF METHYLATION AND HEALING

Messages
56
Hi Fredd

was trying to understand , Approximately how many years do we need to be on this protocol.. before we just come down to maintenance dose.

Or is this protocol for life time...

i have been trying ON and Off for past 2 yrs.. but backing out each time.. and symptoms again come back in few days.. :(
 
Last edited:

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@suraj Fred hasn't been answering recently. Since you've found that your symptoms return each time you back oiut, it suggests you need to continue. I don't think you'll know a maintenance dose until you've been on a healing dosage for some time. I'm now 2 years into the full program, although it took me about 6 months to be brave enough to start increasing B12/folate to theraputic levels. I've recently slightly reduced my B12, and from some feedback I received, I think this might be due to my Candida/SIBO purge. I also reduced folate dosages by using it sublingually instead of swallowing. . I treat myself by following symptoms and self-testing, ie using some form of muscle testing. It's clear to me that due to my genetics, I'll need support forever
 
Messages
56
@suraj Fred hasn't been answering recently. Since you've found that your symptoms return each time you back oiut, it suggests you need to continue. I don't think you'll know a maintenance dose until you've been on a healing dosage for some time. I'm now 2 years into the full program, although it took me about 6 months to be brave enough to start increasing B12/folate to theraputic levels. I've recently slightly reduced my B12, and from some feedback I received, I think this might be due to my Candida/SIBO purge. I also reduced folate dosages by using it sublingually instead of swallowing. . I treat myself by following symptoms and self-testing, ie using some form of muscle testing. It's clear to me that due to my genetics, I'll need support forever

Hey Thanks Ahmo

Im going to make my next launch a fool proof one, and kick off.
 
Messages
87
Hi there,
This is all interesting. I am new and seek help for this. I am following this basic protocol and have jumped right in.
Protocol:
  • Jarrow Formulas 5mg Methyl B12, under upper lip or tongue for at least 45 minutes for best effectiveness
  • Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12) 3mg under upper lip or tongue for at least 45 minutes for best effectiveness
  • Solgar Metafolin 800mcg
  • Jarrow B-Right b-complex, 1 capsule twice a day
  • Potassium, your choice of brand and form - this is insurance against hypokalemia triggered by sudden healing and potentially fatal - if you have blood tests, potassium is usually checked, midrange, around 4.5 is good. Some people will have problems at bottom of "normal" range, 3.5-4.0 as I do.
  • Omega3 fishoils - essential for myelin sheathing for the nerves, many brands will do, 2-6+ capsules per day, I buy it at Costco, house brand. This is available in manysupermarkets.
I'm severely b12 deficient with Neurological symptoms---shooting pains and numbness in face and head. I'm using other brands with matching amounts. I'm 99 pounds.
Is this a good start? My potassium keeps plummeting. I'm drinking coconut water almost constantly. This protocol seems to keep shooting nerve pains in my head at bay. I just don't know if I'm taking enough or too much. Feel nerve pain calming, but it returns In a few hours, so I take more b12/metafolin.
I guess my question is am I making progress?
Any thoughts welcome
Nikki
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Hi there,
This is all interesting. I am new and seek help for this. I am following this basic protocol and have jumped right in.
Protocol:
  • Jarrow Formulas 5mg Methyl B12, under upper lip or tongue for at least 45 minutes for best effectiveness
  • Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12) 3mg under upper lip or tongue for at least 45 minutes for best effectiveness
  • Solgar Metafolin 800mcg
  • Jarrow B-Right b-complex, 1 capsule twice a day
  • Potassium, your choice of brand and form - this is insurance against hypokalemia triggered by sudden healing and potentially fatal - if you have blood tests, potassium is usually checked, midrange, around 4.5 is good. Some people will have problems at bottom of "normal" range, 3.5-4.0 as I do.
  • Omega3 fishoils - essential for myelin sheathing for the nerves, many brands will do, 2-6+ capsules per day, I buy it at Costco, house brand. This is available in manysupermarkets.
I'm severely b12 deficient with Neurological symptoms---shooting pains and numbness in face and head. I'm using other brands with matching amounts. I'm 99 pounds.
Is this a good start? My potassium keeps plummeting. I'm drinking coconut water almost constantly. This protocol seems to keep shooting nerve pains in my head at bay. I just don't know if I'm taking enough or too much. Feel nerve pain calming, but it returns In a few hours, so I take more b12/metafolin.
I guess my question is am I making progress?
Any thoughts welcome
Nikki

Hi Nikki,

The potassium need is a clear defining characteristic of refeeding syndrome. I have started a thread wioth that in the title. It turns out that if one follows the sequence of deficiency symptoms pattern of refeeding syndrome, it can be used to guide ones titrations and choice of what to try next. It's complicated but KNOWING that it is refeeding syndrome that gives both a flag for induced healing and changes in symptoms that can guide a person to the next most limiting item. I'm going to be working out the logic of it with whoever wants to give it a try. When I started posting here maybe 7 years ago, some people sounded near horrified at how much work it was identifying what the next item is needed or what to do. People use all sorts of theories to guide them, using the "healing flags" and "most limiting" deficiency symptoms because that gives you ORDER information for what one needs to fix next. Doing this lets the person's specific problems to guide what is next.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Hi Fredd

was trying to understand , Approximately how many years do we need to be on this protocol.. before we just come down to maintenance dose.

Or is this protocol for life time...

i have been trying ON and Off for past 2 yrs.. but backing out each time.. and symptoms again come back in few days.. :(

Hi Suraj,

Here is the problem. Nutrients for this that are needed can vary tremendously from person to person. For me to be able to stop I would have to be able to change my genes, a whole lot of them in unknown ways. MeCbl and folate symptoms start returning in 3 days after the last dose for instance. It took perhaps 7 years healing for me to exhaust my copper level. That is something that is known to accumulate very l;ittle and very slowly. However, in some years I may be able to cut my dose down a bit. In adjusting for copper deficiency, I decreased my zinc by 50%. In 6 months I can take a challange dose and know in a day whether the lack of zinc is causing me any symptoms. My spider veins have healed slightly from the copper in 2 months. In a year I hope the spider veins are gone and in maybe 10 years the varicose veins might be gone if it can be healed.

So far I have been on MeCbl since 2003 and then various other things as added. I have found that things ONLY respond positively when it is previously limiting some reactions which then start up right away. So there are more than a dozen things that I have tried, often several times, but am not currently taken but don't appear to ever need. As it is a dynamic balance things can change. For instance, since I started titrating Metafolin, starting at 400vmcg daily and I had dozens of symptoms that got a little better and a little worse in all sorts of cycles. At about 18,000 mcg only a few of the symptoms were left and they came and went in a regular cycle. Now at 28,800 mcg daily I have 1 barely occasionally noticeable folate deficiency symptom left but then I started having some severe methylation block symptoms by having a discovered copper deficiency. It can take a decade to do substantial neurological healing. Something I discovered is that demyelination/remyelination is an equilibrium based on a number of variables. I don't how how to get it to 100% fixed, but I moved it from being perhaps only days away from a wheelchair to being perhaps years away from that much neurological deterioration, as long as I give it everything needed to heal. The copper deficiency increased damage and it is very slow to heal. And it needs all the rest of the items needed every day or the balance point of the equilibrium slips down.
 
Messages
87
Hi Nikki,

The potassium need is a clear defining characteristic of refeeding syndrome. I have started a thread wioth that in the title. It turns out that if one follows the sequence of deficiency symptoms pattern of refeeding syndrome, it can be used to guide ones titrations and choice of what to try next. It's complicated but KNOWING that it is refeeding syndrome that gives both a flag for induced healing and changes in symptoms that can guide a person to the next most limiting item. I'm going to be working out the logic of it with whoever wants to give it a try. When I started posting here maybe 7 years ago, some people sounded near horrified at how much work it was identifying what the next item is needed or what to do. People use all sorts of theories to guide them, using the "healing flags" and "most limiting" deficiency symptoms because that gives you ORDER information for what one needs to fix next. Doing this lets the person's specific problems to guide what is next.
Thanks so much! I had never heard of this, and is an interesting concept. Makes me wonder what I'll need after potassium! I'll continue trying to learn more about it! Ill look for your thread.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
I nearly chucked in the Freddd Protocol several times. My main roadblock was forgetting to ramp up doses once old symptoms began to return. (I was hoping to save money: surely a false economy.) In other words, I wasn't following the protocol.

Other than that:

1. Keeping on top of potassium demand, which increases as DQ doses increase. Luckily I get heart palps & cramps as my signal. When that happens I would take potassium chloride; but that began to burn my GIT pretty bad, so now I simply go out & buy a coconut & drink the water, or some bananas to eat. (Living in Cambodia is a help here.)

2. The occasional bad day. You just have to push through those.

My results were modest at first, but after 5 months they are extremely good - e.g. CFS is all but gone.
 
Messages
20
I want to understand. After starting protocol i did not feel any brightening. Upped to 1.6folate/day, 5mg/mb12, 4mg/ado, 750mg/lcf.
Checked my blood for potassium/sodium, it is almost upper range.
I wake up thirsty with massive headache. Betaine and choline helped for the first time.
I was in doubt that i need potassium, i did not get low potassium symptoms at all. Also had stomach pains, thats why avoided it. Now i take it with lots of water.
Looks like potassium helps, but still if i take 5-MTHF i become sleepy and low on energy. Forget words etc. Maybe i started too fast, i am two months into the protocol.
Ah, yes, i am high on urine sulphates/blood ammonia.
What to do to get my energy and brain back?
 

Eastman

Senior Member
Messages
526
@Mr.Catts

Your reason for taking folate and B12 supplements is not clear. If you don't have a deficiency in either, you might not see benefits in supplementing them.

Also, high doses of folate sometimes do make some people sleepy, e.g. see here.
 
Messages
20
I have mtrr a66g+-, my folate is 25-35% in range. B6 is over range. Definitely low b2, but it was in range on test. Need of choline. High ammonia and sulphates. CBS. VDR taq ++
I have a lot of symptoms Fredd described, but i think my problem may be somewhere else.
Where should i start? My mind is foggy and dark.
Trying to grasp instructions.

Thanks, looks i need folate but not that much. Ill stick to 0.8mg/day
 
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Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Hi Fredd

was trying to understand , Approximately how many years do we need to be on this protocol.. before we just come down to maintenance dose.

Or is this protocol for life time...

i have been trying ON and Off for past 2 yrs.. but backing out each time.. and symptoms again come back in few days.. :(

I have not found any ending spot so far, no time to back off the needed doses. I have attributed that to several factors, but it is just a guess. One is that many of the damages are being healed and breaking down continuously in an equilibrium, like nerve problems. Many real damages never go all away, at some point one iis doing everything possible to tread water. An interesting article I just read pointed out that one of the aspects of CblC disease is that the Cbl-C protein is mutated, slightly different, and B12 at normal levels doesn't "adhere" and breaks down with temperature. In that case B12 becomes far more effective if there is a saturation of B12 (true for all varieties, but AdoCbl adheres best and MeCbl 2nd best, HyCbl 3rd and CyCbl worst. With saturation levels of B12 the active B12s are also delivered by diffusion, not just HTC2. I have never found people able to cut back. However, what I have observed is that potassium levels needed are all the time changing. It goes up when something new finishes healing and the newly healing things slows down as there is less remaining to be done. If the potassium goes way down I woul;d expect that the things that cause cell formation might be able to be cut back as fewer cells are being formed.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
@Mr.Catts

Your reason for taking folate and B12 supplements is not clear. If you don't have a deficiency in either, you might not see benefits in supplementing them.

Also, high doses of folate sometimes do make some people sleepy, e.g. see here.

People getting sleepy or sleepless can be a new deficiency flag, another in the series. There are multiple causes so it is more difficult to figure out
 

aquariusgirl

Senior Member
Messages
1,732
It feels like I spent 10 years screwing around w/ methyl b12 & folate.

What worked in the end was big doses of zinc , MITOSYNERGY copper, minerals & magnesium & amino acids (MAP).


I take a little folate & b12 now but it's still hard to tolerate maybe because I have such h a huge lead load ? Chelating the lead w/a doctor.
 
Messages
19
It feels like I spent 10 years screwing around w/ methyl b12 & folate.

What worked in the end was big doses of zinc , MITOSYNERGY copper, minerals & magnesium & amino acids (MAP).


I take a little folate & b12 now but it's still hard to tolerate maybe because I have such h a huge lead load ? Chelating the lead w/a doctor.
How did you know where to take?