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The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Ripley, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. Abha

    Abha Abha

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  2. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Yes. If you only eat 300g of starch/day and no other carbs, your macronutrient ratio is way off.

    To eat PHD-style, you need to eat an enormous amount of safe starches in volume. In reality you aren't eating that many carbs. One of the reason it seems like so much is because you are actually eating a lot of water.

    SAD-dieters eat roughly 60% carbs and therein lies the problem since refined carbs are so carb dense. A piece of bread is the equivalent of a big pile of mashed potatoes.

    This weight/volume discrepancy between complex carbs and refined carbs is one of the fine details of the PHD. Nobody realizes just how many complex carbs you have to eat when you cut out refined carbs.

    So, most people who cut out refined carbs don't realize that they are actually eating very low carb — unless they make an effort to eat lots of complex carbs.
    Lukey likes this.
  3. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    This any help to anyone? It's a list of foods in order of carb content by weight. You have to click on each food to find out more, e.g. sugar content.

    This list is for available carbs.
  4. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Again, it would be easy to dismiss that much starch consumption if it weren't for the impressive results people are seeing from the PHD.

    Not quite. Many Paleo dieters, who avoid grains and refined carbs, don't realize just how few carbohydrates they consume if they don't weigh their starches. Think about it. Say you eat a 2,000 calorie diet and you only consume a 1/4 pound of cooked potatoes per day. That means your macronutrient ratio is only 7% carbs! That's very low carb. (And, mind you, that implies a ton of protein or fat to complete the macronutrients of a 2000 calorie diet).

    Non-starcy carbs, say from greens, don't count since they have virtually no net carbs (i.e. it takes more energy/glucose to break them down than what you can extract from them).

    Yes. It's a very balanced diet in terms of macronutrient ratios. But, keep in mind that you don't get many macronutrients from "lots of greens".
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
    Lukey likes this.
  5. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Potatoes are nightshades (which are highly toxic), so I doubt are ancestors were getting their RS from nightshades. Potatoes have been domesticated to have less toxins than their wild nightshade counterparts. Our ancestors probably got their RS from more obscure sources that don't show up in our grocery stores (obscure roots, pollen, cactus, etc).

    So, it's not advisable to eat raw potatoes. The main concern is solanine, and some potatoes that aren't fresh out of the ground can be flooded with some solanine, even though most of the solanine resides near the skin. If you eat a potato with solanine in it, the area near the skin will be green (which should be peeled away) and you'll notice a burning sensation in the back of your throat and you'll have some bad stomach discomfort 6-10 hours later while feeling pretty woozy. But, you could easily eat a slice of raw peeled potato or a very fresh peeled potato and be perfectly fine.

    What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't make raw potatoes a major source of RS. It's still a nightshade no matter how you slice it. PS is perfectly fine since all of the toxins are water soluble and are washed away in the starch making process.
    Lukey and SickOfSickness like this.
  6. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    It's actually not that much fat in volume. Fat is so caloric that it's pretty easy to consume that much fat with a few pats of butter on your food, a little full-fat yogurt and some fatty cuts of meat. The macronutrients are based on breast milk, fasting breakdowns and cell composition. When you look at the human body, the fat all plays a role in those processes — the cholesterol as well. As long as you stick to the healthy fats and avoid the bad fats (avoid seed oils, and hydrogenated fats, etc.) it all works perfectly well and the PHD book explains it all and is supported by good data.
    Lukey and Lou like this.
  7. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    I've never weighed my food, but those numbers look odd to me. Where did you see 1000 grams of starch for PHD.

    I eat 100 to 150 grams of carbohydrate a day from white rice and/or sweet/white potato. Which is 25 to 30% of my daily calories. A cup of cooked white rice is about 50 grams.
    Lukey likes this.
  8. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Yes. Tim Steele and Richard from freetheanimal.com covered that in last week's Latest in Paleo podcast. Almost certainly mentioned on the FTA website too. I can find it if you need. But I wouldn't for the reasons @Ripley stated.
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Well, they do write 1 pound of starch, and 1 pound of "sugary in-ground vegetables" (beets, carrots, etc) which I presume are starchy as well. Two american pounds would equal around 900g.

    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/
  10. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Could be, I guess since I don't weigh food I haven't seen it that way. I go by the size/amount which I know the carbohydrates for, like the aforementioned 1 cooked cup white rice at ~50 grams or 1 cup cooked sweet potato at ~60 grams.
  11. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    I agree. That number looks off. Basically you just want to figure out your total calorie intake — for many men it's greater than 2000 calories, and try to get ~30% of your energy from safe starches.

    30% isn't a lot, guys. But, it seems like a lot since safe starches are mostly water.

    Exactly. I personally need to eat more than 2000 calories/day so my target is a bit above that.
  12. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Hm. I also eat gluten-free bread and pasta, so maybe my ratio isn't that far off after all, as they would be more dense. The bread I have been eating is whole-grain based, I guess this is really a bad idea? And the gluten-free pasta contains corn, which is a source of RS, but also on the no-no list of PHD. So being gluten-free is not enough?
  13. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    The beets are a good source of carbs. You should include them in your total carb tally. An easy way to tell is by looking at net carbs in cronometer.com. I believe you look at the fiber and subtract it from the starch to get the net carbs. This is why green vegetables aren't a good source of carbs since their carbs are locked up in the fiber and it requires more energy to extract the carbs from them than you get from them.
  14. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    150 grams of carbs would equal around 1 pound white rice, since it's only 30% carbs. So you are actually spot-on PHD.
  15. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    You're overcomplicating it. Just enter your foods (gluten-free, refined, etc.) into cronometer.com for a day or two and just make sure you're getting enough carbs. If you eat refined gluten-free foods, that obviously counts toward your carb consumption. If you eat a banana, that counts towards you carb consumption, etc. It's preferred to get carbs from safe starches and sugary roots (beets), but you still count all your net carbs during the day to make sure you're getting enough. Even Paul Jaminet, the author, says he eats a banana every day and that would obviously count towards his overall carb consumption.

    But even gluten-free refined foods have toxins in them and virtually no fermentable fibers, so they aren't really part of the PHD "diet". So, there's that. But, the main pitfall people fall into is not eating enough carbs if they cut out refined carbs.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
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  16. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Hmm.. I don't think so. I'm not having a problem with that podcast file!
  17. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    @adreno,

    I personally avoid refined grains when I can, but I'm at the stage in my recovery where I don't need to be very strict about it. 80% of the time I eat PHD. 20% of the time I eat whatever I want to. I just make sure I'm getting enough carbs.

    What I have noticed is that my candida/yeast flares up a little bit whenever I eat a refined carb or some sugar. It doesn't bother me that much (I get dandruff and a little Rosacea when it happens), but what's interesting is that a whopping 150g of safe starches per day eliminates my candida/yeast symptoms as long as I avoid refined carbs.

    This paradox is just beginning to be studied by researchers.
    Lukey likes this.
  18. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Definitely not a lot. Try getting Pei Wei to give you less than 3 to 4 cups of rice with your meal :) Your whole day of carbohydrates in one shot if you eat all that. I have to try hard to get less rice out of them.

    I haven't done the calculations since starting PHD in 2011 so I may be off a little. I'm guessing my daily calories are more like 2500 to 2750, and carbohydrates 150 to 175.
    Lukey likes this.
  19. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    I'm scratching my head wondering why there is not a dietary forum in this place :confused:
    Sidereal, garcia, MeSci and 2 others like this.
  20. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    And to be clear, I don't weigh my food much these days. I only did it in the beginning, once I realized that I wasn't eating close to PHD-recommended levels of starches. You really only need to weigh your food to calibrate your mind to the proper volume of carbs/protein/fats. It's something you would just do for a week or two in the beginning.
    Lukey likes this.

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