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The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Ripley, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

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    yes i think because it works by boosting macrophages, and macrophages secrete IL-6, and increased Il-6 is associated with depression.

    Yes ive seen the stuff about mast cells/histamine...i've not found anti-histamines to be majorly helpful though i did find Lutimax helpful at times after bad reactions to the GcMAF. That contains Luteolin (which is quite a strong anti-inflammatory, inhibits activated microglia and IL-6) and I personally found that more helpful than "Neuroprotek" the other well-known mast cell supplement which also has luteolin and quercetin too, but perhaps the Lutimax worked better for me because it is a sublingual lozenge and more easily absorbed I don't know. I know that others find Neuroprotek helpful.
  2. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

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    I've begun to wonder whether potato starch is actually helping me, or whether it's been placebo.

    Others have reported strong reactions, positive and negative, to small amounts. I started at 1 tsp to zero effect, and it wasn't until I hit 3 tbsp that I felt "something". I seemed to feel better - maybe a little more energy, a little less PEM. However, it has not improved my sleep, not caused me any gas (associated with the fermentation we're after) and honestly not done anything that I can definitively associate with potato starch intake.

    I wonder if, as Dr. Grace/BG says, I'm feeding empty zoo cages. Dr. Ayers agrees that RS is "inert fiber" if you don't have the right microbiota, specifically Clostridium. I may need to supplement the right bugs.

    Also, I'm trying the larch arabinogalactan today. Interested to see how, if at all, this stuff effects me. According to Dr Ayers "...resistant starch can be digested by a couple of enzymes into glucose that can be used by most gut flora. Arabinogalactan, on the other hand, requires a dozen enzymes for plant synthesis and an equal number of hydrolytic enzymes to produce arabinose and galactose, which require further enzymes for metabolism in a select few of species of gut flora bacteria."

    Isn't self-experimentation fun?
  3. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I haven't experienced any gas from RS either which seems quite contrary to many reports of severe flatulence on the FTA blog. I am using a very small dose, though (recently worked up to 1 tsp every few days). Here's what a review paper (free full text available) about prebiotics I came across said about gas. (I don't know if this is true or not, just thought I'd share.)

    Asklipia likes this.
  4. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

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    I agree that lack of gas alone wouldn't mean much. And I'm not making a judgement on flatulence as a good/bad thing, only that the lack of gas is on the list of things possibly indicative that the RS is passing through me inertly.
  5. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I've been taking 4 tablespoons of potato starch for 4 weeks. About 2 weeks in I got a thick-mucus cold that went right to my lungs and sinuses. I ended up with a sinus infection requiring antibiotics.

    I finished the antibiotics yesterday, and am still constantly clearing my throat and feeling like I can't quite get rid of something in my throat. I don't feel sick.

    I get arthritis from nightshades, and have not had that reaction to the potato starch at all. But now I'm wondering if the congestion issue is an allergic reaction.

    I had dehydrated some plantains right before I got sick. I just ground them up and will use them instead of the potato starch. We'll see what happens.

    I went through all of my notes, but can't find an answer to this question: Is the RS in plantain flour the same as the RS in green banana flour? I'm finding amounts of 5-6 grams per tablespoon. I'm hoping it's higher than that for plantains.
  6. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Canada
    PS is about 75% RS by weight, Plantain Flour is about 50% by weight. So yes it's lower...significantly.
    References: http://freetheanimal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Resistant-Starch-in-Foods.pdf
    madietodd likes this.
  7. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    I've not written much about two other very respectable sources of RS, both in whole foods: green plantains and green bananas. They're about 50% RS by weight in their unripened state, [http://freetheanimal.com/2014/02/bananas-resistant-starch.html]

    This is where I get confused. A medium peeled banana weighs about 125g. If it's green, that should give me 67g RS. If I dehydrate it, let's pretend I get 30g of flour. According to the chart you linked, I would now only have 15g RS.

    If I somehow lose 3/4 of the RS by turning my bananas into flour, I won't bother.
  8. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    You have to account for the loss in water weight. The % apply to the food AFTER water has been removed.
  9. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    If you look at my quote from a February freetheanimal blog, you see he's talking about whole bananas and plantains.

    I put the question on the blog.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  10. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Maybe he got it confused.
  11. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Maybe the messages about cortisol, etc., could be moved to a new thread. I think they are interesting and helpful.
    thomas_3000, Asklipia and Aileen like this.
  12. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    In a related resistant starch development, it looks like I have run a deficit of vitamin B12 as my metabolism has pushed forward. My legs became suddenly shaky on Sunday, this week, something I have not had in a very long time. I developed worsening paresthesia in both my hands throughout the week, then I started getting some unusual muscle pain, tension sort of jerky pre-spasmodic, uncomfortable stuff. One of those odd symptoms that we deal with at one point or another. Thiamine made me feel awful. I don't regularly take B12, but a little under the tongue lessened symptoms in about 10 minutes. I think MMA may have finally been elevated, which I see as a good sign, provided I keep a little B12 in the cells. Several weeks earlier, it was NAD to seemingly counterbalance NADH rising too quickly.

    I think a b complex, perhaps a little panetehine, plus extra b2, MTHF, and hydroxocobalamin may be the best general recommendation I could give, yet, as you know, there is no one-size fits all when it comes to B vitamins.
  13. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Actually, yesterday I found out I also have a B12 deficiency. The day before I experienced a sort of crash with shakiness, tremors and a general awful feeling. B12 helped (about 5 mg). Yesterday morning it happened again, so yesterday I ended up taking 3 x 5 mg methylcobalamin. I also took an extra dose of my B complex.

    My metabolism is still running at full speed, even I haven't taken RS for a month. I've also lost about 5 kg.

    I also feel like I am on speed most of the time. I think I have overloaded on zinc. I had a severe deficiency a few years ago and have taken 60mg for about a year, then reduced to 30mg some time ago. But since starting on the RS, I don't tolerate it any more. I get headache, nausea, liver pain, muscle cramps and a speedy feeling if I take zinc now. Perhaps I started actually absorbing minerals from food?

    Zinc seems to be a NMDA blocker while stimulating other glutamate receptors. Perhaps I need more B6 to turn all that glutamate into GABA.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  14. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    It is interesting that you guys mention RS induced B12 deficiency. Last week I started getting some paresthesia in my hands and I was stumbling around, mild ataxia etc., the usual symptoms I get when my B12 gets low and I need to supplement some.

    @adreno , the revved up feeling you describe, are you supplementing with thyroid or steroid hormones perhaps? I too have a very strong reaction to zinc now that I am taking RS. Last weekend I decided to add some GOS to my tiny RS dose. I took 5.5 g of GOS (one sachet of Bimuno) for a couple of days in a row. I also took 15 mg of zinc last Sunday just to see what would happen. What ensued really shocked me due to its severity. Nausea, headache, heaviness in limbs, sore throat, lymphatic pain around knees and feet, even mild temperature in early afternoons. I felt like full-on flu had come on but of course it was bacterial die-off. I feel better today (7 days later). Then I remembered that zinc was discussed on this thread a while ago so I did a search and this popped up:

  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    @Sidereal, no thyroid meds. I was taking 1mg of iodine which I stopped 6 weeks ago. Still anything that stimulate the thyroid (vitamin a, selenium, monolaurin etc) is intolerable.
    It definitely feels like zinc toxicity to me, not die off.
  16. finalgates

    finalgates

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    is it good idea to take sodium bicarbonate with probiotics to survive stomach acid better?
  17. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    My experiment with dehydrating green plantains and green bananas:

    4.5lb plantains yields 2.7lb peeled, yields 1lb flour (22% yield), measuring about 3 1/2 cups

    6.6lb bananas yields 3.9lb peeled, yields 1 lb flour (15% yield) measuring about 2 1/3 cups

    The plantains cost me $3 for 6; the bananas cost me $3 for 6 pounds.

    The plantain flour cost me $3.20/lb. The banana flour cost me $3.10/lb.

    The plantain tastes like starch. The banana tastes intensely of banana.
  18. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    Has anyone tried taking PS while on antibiotics? Or would that be a bad idea?

    My gut got really screwed up on amoxicillin despite seeing other positive effects in my health. I've been off for a while now but am trying out doxycycline, since my health has declined considerably since stopping the amoxicillin. But I would still like to work on my gut if I can. Regular lactic-acid producing probiotics leave me completely hypoxic-- my D-lactate is high. I partly wonder if I was feeling better on amoxicillin just by killing off my good guys :/
  19. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I am taking it while on abx. Been taking a new abx for two weeks and I have blown up yet. :nervous:

    Sushi
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  20. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I have just developed an interest in kynurenine/tryptophan after reading an item on interferon and depression in Journal Watch, and have posted a thread on it here.

    I have decided to try 5-HTP for my current low mood.
    rosie26 likes this.

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