The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[adreno]

Btw, there are other ways to get RS to travel further down to the colon. Taking RS with a small amount of other fibers (as Dr. Grace/BG recommends) can help delay fermentation a bit. The other fibers can be added with supplementation or with food. Tim Steels recommends just using food, but you can experiment and see what works best for you.

But, if the food contains sugars, you won't get the cleansing benefit you mentioned above?

 

[adreno]

Another question: if we take RS intermittently, every few days, will we still get the benefits of improved glucose regulation and so forth (on days not taking RS)?

 

[Beyond]

Yeah I knew that reducing gut inflammation is said to be key for the brain or the HPA axis (and I believe it). My problem was more with taking probiotics for serotonin and it morphed to discussing a theory I already support.

Great info re how much and when to take RS. I am impatient to start the experiment!

 

[xjhuez]

Are you aware that increasing bifido strains theoretically may also reduce ammonia? Also, may I ask how you reduced serum ammonia?

I just became aware of it this week, when Gestalt pasted Vegas' posts. I'm eager to try it, but holding off for another week or so until I'm done with my RS trial period.

So far RS is may be helping with my sleep, but otherwise having no effect. It's not even causing flatulence, which I was warned about. I may need to take a larger dose, or alongside more psyllium, so it reaches the distal colon.

500mg of Yucca schidigera with every meal takes care of my ammonia. I'm not sure by what mechanism. I believe it may bind with it to keep in from being absorbed into my blood, and/or it does something to whatever is producing it.

 

[Ripley]

Awesome post (and video) on the gut/brain/health connection.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/11/18/244526773/gut-bacteria-might-guide-the-workings-of-our-minds

 

[Ripley]

But, if the food contains sugars, you won't get the cleansing benefit you mentioned above?

That's what it said. Sounds like the sugar granules and starch granules end up competing for the pathogens.

Another question: if we take RS intermittently, every few days, will we still get the benefits of improved glucose regulation and so forth (on days not taking RS)?

Yes. So, typically the blood glucose regulation is very good for ~24 hours, but it fades over the next 2-3 days until you go back to a low RS/fiber baseline. Basically the theory is that we are always supposed to eat these kinds of RS/fiber-rich foods that regulate us and feed our flora — and what we think of as "normal" is really just a deficient state where we are lacking these regulating starches and fibers.

 

[Gestalt]

Cross-posting this from my Candida thread so people can see my personal experience report so far with RS.

Quick update in regards to my experimentation with RS. I started January 11, so it's been almost 3 weeks. I started off slow with 1tsp working my way up to 3-4tbsp in a week. So the last 2 weeks I have been on 3-4tbsp a day and had only a single two day break to do a reset because gas started becoming excessive. The reset fixed that. For the most part gas has not been an issue so I'm pretty happy about that, although at times it can be annoying. There are some major changes taking place within my body and results so far are mixed.

First the good. TMI has never been better, I seem to have better gut motility, body temperatures have stabilized more and I saw some improvement in endurance at the gym. My blood glucose subjectively seems better and I am not waking up starving on the verge of fainting. I can also go longer between meals before my glucose begins to crash which barely ever happens now. The biggest benefit though has been that it has completely eliminated the nausea symptoms from taking Candex. So it would appear that RS is having a very beneficial effect in terms of either getting rid of Candida or creating conditions in my gut so it doesn't thrive, or helping with the elimination die off detox process.

I was really stuck at a plateau there for a while and RS seems to have shifted things for me in terms of the yeast issue. I also stopped taking my nightly two capsules of yucca and feel I don't need it anymore. So thus I feel the RS has helped resolve my ammonia issue. Also anxiety has been reduced and my body feels a bit more relaxed.

My dreams also became incredibly vivid and it feels like I am more conscious in the dream state. It seems almost hyper-real where as before my dreams had a foggy/hazy/exhausting quality to them. The improvement in dream quality is a good reason alone to take RS in my opinion.

Now the downside. While my dreams seem exceptionally clear in their quality, it seems to have had a reverse effect on my waking life. I have a real hard time getting out of bed and feel super tired upon waking in the morning after having slept 7-8hrs. My sleep has become really deep but I almost seem stuck there. I feel tired and lethargic all day long, and if I nap my body get's a lot of pain all over (not that that's new) as in an over-sleeping symptom. It's almost like the RS is working TOO well and it feels like I am drugged with melatonin. I have generally low energy all day (as in chronic fatigue) physically and mentally.

So on the candida side and other body metric's there is definite improvement however in terms of CFS I feel worse off.

As mentioned in the Resistant Starch thread I have as of 2 days ago also begun taking B.Bifidus and B.infantis with my RS. This morning I woke up feeling somewhat rejuvenated and less groggy since starting the experiment. My body also has less generalized pain. So I have hope that maybe the introduction of those two strains will remedy this fatigue.

I have no intention of stopping, rather I am planning on increasing the dose to 6-8 tbsp a day and persisting with multiple types of probiotics. I feel that gut re-balancing may take time....as in months, and based on the many improvements all ready seen hoping that my gut and body will sort itself out and my fatigue symptoms will disappear.

My mother had informed me I was on antibiotics as an infant. I also took them multiple times a year growing up whenever I got sick. SO there is no doubt in my mind that dysbiosis is something I have had for a very long time. This led to a proliferation of bad gut microbes fungi and bacteria, which I am only beginning to resolve. The increased fatigue I feel may be from the die-off of bad guys as the RS feeds the good guys. Also there is no doubt many metabolic factors, hormonal and neurotransmitter factors that are being influenced as I go through this process. It amazes me how much gut microbes influence these things.

My gf has also been on the RS experiment with me. In her case she is on the whole much more positive and happy than before. Prior to meeting me she had been on anti-depressants and the RS seems to have helped her to re-balance her neurotransmitters. She is also enjoying the vivid dreams.

 

[Ripley]

@Gestalt, are you getting probiotics from any fermented foods? I know some people have trouble with them, but even a few servings of fermented foods per week — even something as simple as unpasteurized sauerkraut or homemade kim chi — can introduce a huge variety of beneficial bacteria into the gut.

 

[dmholmes]

... I have generally low energy all day (as in chronic fatigue) physically and mentally.

@Gestalt, are you doing 4 tbsp at once or divided? I ask because 4 tbsp at one time had the same effect for me, but not 2 tbsp twice a day.

 

[Gestalt]

@Gestalt, are you doing 4 tbsp at once or divided? I ask because 4 tbsp at one time had the same effect for me, but not 2 tbsp twice a day.

I was doing 1tbsp 3-4x a day. Starting today gonna do 2tbs, 2x a day, based of ripley's recent advice about potential further transit if more is taken at once.

 

[dmholmes]

I was doing 1tbsp 3-4x a day. Starting today gonna do 2tbs, 2x a day, based of ripley's recent advice about potential further transit if more is taken at once.

Psyllium or another non-starch polysaccharide can help move the fermentation distally.

 

[MeSci]

Cross-posting this from my Candida thread so people can see my personal experience report so far with RS.

I saw some improvement in endurance at the gym

This sounds as though you are pushing yourself hard, maybe raising your heart rate excessively and exceeding your anaerobic threshold? This is another thing that can increase gut permeability:

http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/2/571.full

Do you suffer from post-exertional malaise? This seems usually to include gut problems which, if they are the basis for this illness, will likely lead to (perpetuation of) the other problems.

Just wondered what your activity level is in the numerical terms used on PR. I suspect that few of us would feel that gym-type exertion was wise for ourselves.

 

[adreno]

It must be a temporary increase in gut permeability following exercise. I do not think that exercise will perpetuate leaky gut syndrome. I go to the gym too, and feel better for it, although it is quite tough at times, and was terrible in the beginning. But I find that I tolerate it more and more.

 

[brenda]

I am up to one half teaspoon and already have results, but then I am extremely sensitive to whatever I take. Sleep is sounder with a weird vivid dream last night! However, I am starting to notice a slight increase of inflammation in my 'frozen shoulder' pain worsening and a few slight palps.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Also, I've been eating a s-ton of carbs lately, way more than usual. (rice, white potatoes, sweet potatoes, and some bad ones, like potato and corn flour chips). So I have to take that into consideration and cut back on the bad ones especially before I declare RS to be a failure.

BTW, corn does not have gluten but has something similar that is damaging to gut lining.

Most white rice is enriched with folic acid, and plenty of us can't tolerate that "fake folate" well. (Many people avoid brown rice.)

Also potatoes (and rice) are bad regarding pesticides if you get conventional (not organic).

 

[adreno]

Also potatoes (and rice) are bad regarding pesticides if you get conventional (not organic).

Really, even peeled?

 

[SickOfSickness]

My skepticism regarding using probiotics as a primary therapy for mental problems is not foolish, or is it? The gut affects the brain and viceversa, but for neurological problems is the gut the first place to target for therapy? Or is the brain a more logical target for treatment? I don´t know the answer but my take is that the brain needs direct treatment besides healing the gut.

I want to improve my neurotransmitters, but without psychiatric drugs. I don't tolerate most prescriptions so I have to try natural methods.

I hope that healing the gut has a significant impact in the brain. Time will tell because I am treating my gut and I have so called "mental problems" that are comorbid with digestive problems. I had the mental problems way before any digestive symptom though...

It seems likely that beneficial bacteria are wiped out from all the antibiotics we are given. I would bet my balance of bacteria was off by the time I had ME/CFS symptoms. I was primary school age. Some people seem to bounce back from the antibiotic courses, doubtful that I did. I did not notice digestive issues until years after the ME/CFS symptoms, and I am betting lack of some bacteria or imbalance doesn't always cause noticeable digestive symptoms.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Really, even peeled?

Good question. I looked it up and added a blog for it: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ion-of-conventional-potatoes-and-apples.1544/

 

[finalgates]

gluten destroys gut lining in all people?or only in people with allergiew sensitivities?because i dont feel any stomach problem with gluten foods.
and if somebody has problems with potatoes he will have with its starch too?or no because it is undigested?

 

[MeSci]

Most white rice is enriched with folic acid, and plenty of us can't tolerate that "fake folate" well. (Many people avoid brown rice.)

I think this may be only a US thing.