The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[piccirilli]

Thank you, Asklipia, for posting this. I´m sure, treating fungi as underlying cause is important for regaining our health.
Moreover, Sanum supports the gut flora, and does not damage the gut flora in any way. We do not know, what damages devitalizing substances do in our gut.
And as candida needs to be treated for at least 1-2 years to be solved, we need treatments, which do not do any damage in the long road.

In building up the gut flora with RS+prebiotics+probiotics, addressing methylation, as candida blocks methylation and blocks immunity, so that we have no defense against microbes, addressing candida homoepathically, which turns candida back in the non-pathogenic form, immunity builds up, and this is the preconditiong to fight underlying viral and bacterial infections.

This is really good information. I am continually humbled by such good logical advise.
However, unlike this safer and more reasonable approach, I am intending to rock the boat. Why? Because my fungal infection has done plenty of long term damage and harm, reducing quality of life. As such, my initial reasoning is to take action not gently, but aggressively. Of course, this approach also puts me at bigger risk of doing additional temporary harm. But the short term results were so surprisingly positive, I need to take it a bit further and see it through, this time in a 'divide and conquer' approach, with better observation and documentation. Again, my intention is to reduce the number of pathogens, so other long term treatments like RS, might be more successful. It's an experimental works in progress. If nothing else, I can put to rest the claim these supplements (Oregano oil, Cinnamon Oil, Coconut Oil, GSE, Undecylic Acid, NAC, Pau d' Arco, Caprylic Acid, Berberine) along with biofilm cutting enzymes are effective in killing systemic fungal pathogens.
If all fails, I will be taking the safer approaches mentioned here.
.

 

[ariel]

Thank you Asklipia. I might hold off til I finish my current bottle of AOR3.
Love to hear how you go with the homeopathics. I never looked properly into it, just so many things!, but very interested to see how you go with it.

Lovely advice Jepps. I think my basic approach has been to add in as many different probiotics, and as many prebiotics as I can in an attempt to flood the body with the good stuff, and hopefully they will work things out for themselves.
That said, I really don't think I could have survived these last few years without olive leaf. It seems to do something for me that not much else touches.

I also wanted to mention that I have been taking Dr Clark's green black walnut tincture for just two days now. It feel like it is something of a breakthrough for me. One of Green black walnut's functions is to assist the gut. I have only taken 10 drops twice in a small amount of water and it has given me extreme bloating, which has been physically uncomfortable... but. there is a clarity in my head that I have not experienced in a long time.
It is still early days yet, so will see.

 

[student]

@piccirilli. I hope you never get stuck.
Maybe it’s a good moment to discuss. In Methylation Forum one could come to this option: Apply b12 @ nasal. Folate later and why can not these multis (health, mito support vitamins) also be given directly into your nose.

Fungus will hold – while Body options and igA secretion are bad. What keeps Bac & fungus and others localy can often also be toxique. To detox there in this sinus areas can be a very good idea for later. And to others that read and watch this: Please stopp your own heroic plans and think. Strengthen your body – with the Methylation & Glutathion capacity first line. Than after (lets say 4 weeks) start the fight and approach. I would plan: 1. Methylation, 2. Detox, 3. De- Bac. So go with preparation. Do all the necesarry groundwork & enjoy the good healthy sucess later.

Give nasal: I laid my head far down for an application. Than I gave the local „methyldonors“ into my nose (every second day). Very simply in a syringe (perhaps with needle). You could go higher up into the nose – with carefull movements not harm anything. Than releas all liquid from your syringe. At first I often feld a sharp pain. And that will release soon. In the first 5 to 10 applications be prepared for a much higher saliva production. (Coph and) through out early. Keep a cup in reach for this wast. Never swallow much, what is likely to have toxines. In this head down position I rest 3- 5 min. befor getting up. This activation of local methylation @ nasal had become for me the most rewarding experience. I hope this can help you as well.

Ps. My first line detox is Chlorella and others (Bärlauch, Koriander- german). I read Klinhard perscribes more than 50 chlorellas these days, while on methylation.
enjoy
Jo.zzy reading

 

[Sherlock]

green black walnut tincture for just two days now. It feel like it is something of a breakthrough for me. One of Green black walnut's functions is to assist the gut. I have only taken 10 drops twice in a small amount of water and it has given me extreme bloating

sounds like a Herxheimer reaction

If you've ever seen black walnut trees, nothing at all grows underneath them because the husks are so toxic.

Which do you think is more powerful, the olive leaf or the black walnut?

 

[ariel]

Which do you think is more powerful, the olive leaf or the black walnut?

Oh dear, good question though I actually wouldn't know. I have to give a reply similar to what Asklipia wrote to me, which is that I am basically more well now than when I first started taking olive leaf, which was several years ago, so it is hard to tell which is actually more powerful.
They are both powerful, but in different ways. The green black walnut seemed to have a tightening effect somehow. The bloating lasted just the first two days, though there is still a sense of die-off happening - it has still only been a few days. The biggest thing I noticed was an increased mental clarity. Green black walnut seems to have so many attributes, including being used in parasite cleanses. I have done some parasite cleanses, but they were a few years ago now and I used something which had many herbs in it.

I found this, if it is any help:
http://www.enlightenedrevolution.com/?p=741
"Black walnut has many interesting properties to say the least. It seems to function as one of our plant replacements for a protomorphogen, which is a complex of proteins (usually animal proteins from a the tissue one wishes to affect) that distracts or stops inappropriate immune response to a tissue when it is taken into the gut. This is useful where damage is occurring to a tissue chronically and it will not get well. The immune system is distracted and the tissue is given proper nutrition and it then heals."
"I keep it around mostly for killing abnormal flora in the upper digestion, stomach, pancreatic duct, sphincter of Oddi and gall bladder. I have the person take a half teaspoon of the tincture in water on an empty stomach first thing each morning. Some have gotten significanly better just doing this alone and I often include it as a key part of healing the whole gut and immune system when the person has been weak and inflamed for a long time."

I'm still on just 10 drops (half a teaspoon sounds like a lot to me). But if you were to try it, it might be better to start with much less even.
I hope that helps, it is so hard to tell sometimes what will work for you. Unfortunately it seems that we have to just try something ourselves, which means an awful lot of hit and miss, plus expense.


On another note, I significantly reduced my starches for a little while ago as I had a candida flare and decided to back off and then introduce the S Boulardii. Today I decided to have some acacia, which is the only one I still continued, and then I rather unthinkingly added in 1 teaspoon of Larch AG. I had scaled up to quite a bit more than that in the past, so didn't really think too much of it.
Wow! I had a major flare. My body temperature increased and my whole body felt like it was on fire and cramping.
It was as though I was starting from scratch and had never taken the stuff before. I must admit I was in such discomfort that I thought -- 'That is it! I'm sick of these starches. No more! This isn't working!'

But... even though I still feel not so great, the flare passed much more quickly than it has done in the past.
Is that progress? I dunno... guess so...
Whatever is out of balance in there sure is taking a while to come into balance.

 

[Valentijn]

sounds like a Herxheimer reaction

It doesn't sound even remotely like a Herxheimer reaction. Bloating isn't a Herxheimer symptom, but fevers, headaches, and hypotension are.

 

[Sherlock]

It doesn't sound even remotely like a Herxheimer reaction. Bloating isn't a Herxheimer symptom, but fevers, headaches, and hypotension are.

Really? I just did a search https://startpage.com/do/search?q=Herxheimer+candida+bloating

and the very first result says:
http://www.thecandidadiet.com/candida-die-off.htm

Here is a list of some of the symptoms you might experience during a die-off (otherwise known as a Herxheimer reaction).
...
Bloating, gas, constipation or diarrhea

another at http://www.biblelife.org/candida.htm

DIE OFF
...
Usually present are nausea, headaches, gas

another at http://www.candida-cure-recipes.com/candida-die-off.html

What Causes Candida Die Off Symptoms?
Candida die off, sometimes referred to as the Herxheimer Reaction, occurs when the excess candida yeasts in our system literally “die off”, producing toxins at too rapid a rate for our bodies to process and eliminate.
...
As the body works to detoxify, you may experience symptoms including... gas & bloating, flatulence

another at http://www.lemonandlyme.com/Articles/Expect/Herx.php

How To Recognize a Herx
The most common symptoms reported include... bloating

There seems to be many others, too.

Since killing large numbers of yeast makes them release the gas that they hold inside en masse, what would you call it?

 

[Valentijn]

@Sherlock - A herxheimer reaction is very specific, and centers around endotoxins being released by spirochetal bacteria as it dies. A "candida die-off" reaction would be something quite different.

People use the term very sloppily and incorrectly. This is not a good thing to do in general because it ends up as "any unpleasant symptoms are a good sign", whether or not there is any research to support that conclusion in reaction to a specific treatment or condition. This can result in people ignoring harmful symptoms, which is a really bad idea unless there's some really solid research supporting that approach.

It also makes someone sound quite ignorant and untrustworthy when they use a medical terminology incorrectly. And that can result in the entire concept (such as candida infection) being discounted, or a patient being dismissed by their doctor. Please use the correct terminology instead of propagating the spread of disinformation.

 

[Sherlock]

It also makes someone sound quite ignorant and untrustworthy when they use a medical terminology incorrectly.

So now you are saying that I am "ignorant and untrustworthy" ? Do you have some problem with me personally that I don't know about?

 

[Valentijn]

So now you are saying that I am "ignorant and untrustworthy" ?

No, but people will make that assumption when it's used incorrectly.

 

[whodathunkit]

No, but people will make that assumption when it's used incorrectly.

Not everyone. Only some people.

For better or for worse, the term has entered the "common usage" lexicon and is now commonly understood to mean all unpleasant reactions relating to the die off of microorganisms in the body.

 

[Sherlock]

No, but people will make that assumption when it's used incorrectly.

I don't think that most people are so lacking in good manners so as to make a public display over a commonly used and accepted meaning of a term.

 

[Sidereal]

@Valentijn, how can we know for sure it's only spirochetal bacteria dying that causes Herxheimer reactions? Maybe we just think this is so because it was originally talked about in the context of syphilis and now Lyme disease. The term herx has now entered common usage, as others have said, for better or for worse. Obviously candida is a yeast so this does not apply to candida die-off but to my mind any gram-negative bacterial die-off could cause these symptoms if concentrations of LPS are high enough. LPS is incredibly inflammatory. I have had classic herx-like reactions from taking various types of prebiotics - hypotension, mild fevers/chills, headache, flu-like body aches. According to (flawed) testing, I don't have Lyme disease so I have to assume these reactions are just from die-off of pathogenic gut bacteria since the symptoms are clearly precipitated by fibres, are transient and do not reflect a deterioration of the underlying condition.

 

[Valentijn]

@Valentijn, how can we know for sure it's only spirochetal bacteria dying that causes Herxheimer reactions?

Because that's how the reaction is defined. And as you say, similar symptoms are "herx-like", not an actual Herxheimer reaction. And getting gas from candida supposedly dying off isn't even remotely similar to the Herxheimer symptoms.

"Common usage" in a certain group of people does not equate to "correct usage".

 

[Sherlock]

Because that's how the reaction is defined. And as you say, similar symptoms are "herx-like", not an actual Herxheimer reaction. And getting gas from candida supposedly dying off isn't even remotely similar to the Herxheimer symptoms.

"Common usage" in a certain group of people does not equate to "correct usage".

If your central point is that the common usage is not the same as the less used but supposedly much more desirable strict usage, why didn't you just be clear from the very beginning and say that? Clarity in writing is important. The way that you said things is misleading and unfortunately sidetracked the conversation that was going on.

I'll tell you what, though, I'll help you out. If I spot any incorrect usage of a term, I'll notify you so that you can spring into action again with "untrustworthy and ignorant" and so on. Strictness is much more important than efficient communication, right?

Btw, should that alarm go out over anybody who begins a sentence with "And"? That's not correct, though it might be common.

 

[Sidereal]

Speaking of "herxing", I'm having a big reaction to modified citrus pectin.

 

[anne_likes_red]

FWIW whatever I was killing off (using RS initially and later pectin) gave me fevers and chills plus, in the case of pectin, significantly worsened OI and hypotension.
I now need to treat SIBO.....which I must have had all along but which has become much more obvious of an issue.
It's difficult to work out what's occurring as the result of feeding "bad" (ie pathogenic or wrongly situated) guys and what might be the result of feeding good guys who deal effectively with the bad ones...

 

[Gondwanaland]

Speaking of "herxing", I'm having a big reaction to modified citrus pectin.

such as?

 

[anne_likes_red]

Speaking of "herxing", I'm having a big reaction to modified citrus pectin.

I lost six weeks experimenting with citrus pectin. Ended up pretty much bedbound. OI and hypotension worst I've ever experienced.
Be careful out there.

 

[Sidereal]

@anne_likes_red, wow, sorry to hear. Were you taking it every day? Thanks for the warning. I'm getting serious hypotension + feeling like trash globally from modified citrus pectin.