The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[Sasha]

BTW, has everyone seen "tatertot" Tim Steele's new blog (can't remember if I've already mentioned it here):

http://vegetablepharm.blogspot.co.uk/

Lovely guy and high-quality info.

 

[NilaJones]

Has anyone else had an increase in nasal allergy symptoms (sneezing, etc., in response to allergens) since starting RS?

That, plus the flu-like fever, body aches, and malaise would have made me think I had the flu, if not for 1) reading here that it's a typical reaction, and 2) checking the CDC weekly flu report, which shows virtually none in my area.

The fever/aches/malaise stopped after I stopped RS for 2-3 days, but now is about day 4 without and I am still snotty .

Is it ok to take a break of a week or two? I have stuff going on IRL that makes being extra-sick problematic (though, when isn't it?)

 

[jepps]

Now I have suspected some sort of dysbiosis, lack of good bacteria or overgrowth of bad bacteria/yeast for a long time. This effect resistant starch has on me kind of points towards the same, no?

What would be the best plan of action here? Some sort of herbal antibiotic for a while and then probiotics before trying resistant starch again?

.

tolo, this is Kresser´s plan for SIBO and SIFO:

http://chriskresser.com/rhr-testing-for-sibo-graves-disease-and-all-about-anemia tests for SIBO

Test für SIBO: „Normally the small intestine should be relatively sterile, Most of the bacteria that resides in our gut are in the colon and, to a lesser extent, the very end of the terminal ileum, which is the end of the small intestine. But in some cases, the bacteria can translocate from the colon into the small intestine where it doesn’t belong, and then that causes gas and bloating and pain and changes in stool frequency and consistency.
There are two ways of testing for small intestine bacterial overgrowth. One, and the most common one is a breath test. The lab tests for certain gases that are produced by certain kinds of bacteria. If the levels of the gases are high, then that indicates you have an overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine. Another way of testing for it is an urine organic acids test, and these are offered by labs like Metametrix and Genova Diagnostics. Organic acids are byproducts of bacterial metabolism. So certain types of organic acids, if they’re elevated in the urine, can indicate an overgrowth of bacteria in the gut and also an overgrowth of fungi. D-arabinitol is an organic acid that’s produced in fungal metabolism,
Test für FODMAP: this ist he fructose intolerance test, If you test positive for fructose intolerance, then you gonna benefit from doing the FODMAP approach since the FODMAP approach is based on reducing foods that have excess fructose or fructans or polyols, sugar alcohols.
Test für Leaky Gut: This is the lactulose/mannitol test, and that’s the one that’s best known. You drink a solution of lactulose and mannitol sugars. They’re rather large molecules, and they shouldn’t pass through the gut when the gut barrier is intact. If they are detected in the blood, that means they’ve passed through the gut, and that means, that you have a leaky gut.“

http://chriskresser.com/sibo-and-methane-whats-the-connection treatment for SIBO

My strategy is to start with the botanical protocols, and use antimicrobial botanicals like olive leaf extract, uva ursi, cat’s claw, yerba mansa, coptis, artemesia, sida, et cetera. Then use soil-based organisms that secrete antimicrobial peptides—Prescript-Assist, which I sell in my store. It’s available in my store, because I’ve just had such great success with it in just about everybody, which is rare with probiotics. You know, a lot of people don’t respond to probiotics very well. Then we have nutrients like Lauricidin or lauric acid, which are antimicrobial, which may be helpful in this kind of situation. So I like to start a protocol with a whole bunch of natural things like that, and see how they do. I only really recommend the rifaximin and neomycin combo if a couple of rounds of this initial protocol aren’t successful. Then I would definitely suggest patients take things like Saccharomyces boulardii or other probiotics while they’re doing the protocol and after the protocol. Then ironically, prebiotics and resistent starch often are a big part of the healing process. This is where it gets tricky, because prebiotics and resistent starch are the fiber that feed the bacteria, which then produce hydrogen, which feed the archaea. You have to make sure you reduce the levels of those bacteria and archaea first, and then come in with the prebiotics to rebuild a healthy gut flora that will make it less likely that you’ll develop this problem again in the future. So it’s a pretty involved process, there’s a lot to it, and it has to be timed right. But it’s definitely possible, and it works. It just takes more time, in some cases, than people expect. Generally, with SIBO, and especially if it’s a recalcitrant case and the levels of methane are really high, I tend to tell patients that this is going to be a 6- to 12-month process to fully deal with it, and that’s what we’re seeing in the clinic“

Regards, jepps

 

[Sidereal]

Has anyone else had an increase in nasal allergy symptoms (sneezing, etc., in response to allergens) since starting RS?

That, plus the flu-like fever, body aches, and malaise would have made me think I had the flu, if not for 1) reading here that it's a typical reaction, and 2) checking the CDC weekly flu report, which shows virtually none in my area.

The fever/aches/malaise stopped after I stopped RS for 2-3 days, but now is about day 4 without and I am still snotty .

Is it ok to take a break of a week or two? I have stuff going on IRL that makes being extra-sick problematic (though, when isn't it?)

I had an initial transient increase in allergies after starting RS, followed by a decrease later on. The flu-like reaction is a given for anyone with ME/CFS I would think. It's probably best to take a tiny dose and build up very slowly as tolerated. I've taken breaks from RS in the past to give my body a break from the inflammation. Taking a break did not seem to cause a setback.

 

[Vegas]

The biggest problem I am experiencing is the inflammatory response, Aside from keeping my PUFA and magnesium (via epsom salt baths) concentrations high, a little niacin has also been beneficial. I think niacin might have some ability to slow down the inflammatory symptoms, but I welcome any ideas or critique concerning why Niacin may be helpful. This is not going to be useful to everyone, nor would I generally recommend this, I just wanted to see if anyone had experience with this.

I mentioned before about the effects of LPS in diverting tryptophan to niacin synthesis and away from serotonin, This would globally inhibit the energy metabolism by altering the NADH/NAD ratio because more NAD reduces the availability of NADH. So in simple terms, one of the effects of the toxic part of the cell wall from this category of largely pathogenic organisms is to direct the break down of the essential amino acid tryptophan towards the synthesis of niacin. Increasing niacin concentrations reduces the capacity of NADH to donate electrons to the fundamental part of the metabolism where energy from our food is converted into chemical or usable energy by our brain, organs, muscles etc.

If one doesn't have enough NADH or ATP, he or she can develop lactic acidosis, so this has to be tightly regulated with a number of other counter-regulatory responses. An accumulation of ADP and NAD would have the effect of slowing down the energy metabolism at the most influential point. This is something seen in ME/CFS, and clearly involves multiple causes, but it appears there is a very clear way in which endotoxins could, independently execute this energy blockage, thus by design inhibiting the subservient processes of methylation and acetylation. Honestly though, I'm not sure the degree to which this would affect the PDC and energy synthesis, but this would intervene at what what happens to be the fundamental metabolic intersection. It is one way that our bodies could transiently, and without harm, inhibit energy synthesis at such a root level. The place where your food energy becomes usable by the body.

If you subscribe to a bacterial pathogenesis for ME/CFS, there is yet another interesting distinction between gram negative and gram positive bacteria in how their pyruvate dehydrogenase complexes are structured. Actually, humans and gram positive bacterial metabolism are highly similar, with gram negative bacteria again being structurally distinct.

O.K. how silly to respond to my own post, but I just recently gained some new insight into the significance of tryptophan diversion from looking at genomic and metabolomic data. It seems that a key cog in microbial butyrate synthesis has a uncanny ability to hydrolyze tryptophan.

 

[Vegas]

I had an initial transient increase in allergies after starting RS, followed by a decrease later on. The flu-like reaction is a given for anyone with ME/CFS I would think. It's probably best to take a tiny dose and build up very slowly as tolerated. I've taken breaks from RS in the past to give my body a break from the inflammation. Taking a break did not seem to cause a setback.

Yep agreed. Taking a break is certainly of no adverse consequence. Moreover, the effect of raising inflammation to excess is not only not productive and painful, I think it can impede progress.

As for the allergy symptoms, obviously the improvement of these is a goal, although I do agree with Sidereal that some worsening of symptoms and symptom vacillation is likely to occur. I think starch, singularly, is probably not an ideal prebiotic for ME/CFS.

I think certain prebiotics will prove to be quite effective at dampening these allergy symptoms, I have had success, I believe it takes a while to get there, though. It is not a matter of supplementing a few organisms but rather massively altering the terrain by shifting pH, reducing concentrations of toxins, changing ratios of amino acids, changing energy potential, lowering oxidative stress. This is a process that involves multiple organisms, but clearly a prebiotic approach is superior to a probiotic-focused effort.

The best information we have about the effects of T-reg expansion and differentiation would suggest to me that an assortment of oligo/polysacharides would be preferred, and resistant starches are probably not as specific a substrate as we would want when encouraging those specific organisms that yield T-reg enhancement. Some of the most potent inducers of this immunomodulation appear to have key roles in the metabolism of histidine.

 

[Sidereal]

O.K. how silly to respond to my own post, but I just recently gained some new insight into the significance of tryptophan diversion from looking at genomic and metabolomic data. It seems that a key cog in microbial butyrate synthesis has a uncanny ability to hydrolyze tryptophan.

Do tell.

 

[Jay franklin]

The best information we have about the effects of T-reg expansion and differentiation would suggest to me that an assortment of oligo/polysacharides would be preferred, and resistant starches are probably not as specific a substrate as we would want when encouraging those specific organisms that yield T-reg enhancement. Some of the most potent inducers of this immunomodulation appear to have key roles in the metabolism of histidine.

On the oligosaccharides, best to mix them up, for instance different chain length FOS/Inulin? best to mix GOS in with something like FOS to spread effect along length of colon or for cross-feeding of populations?

I have personally experienced some benefit from taking higher dose FOS (reduced anxiety). Any thoughts on who is likely to benefit/not benefit from FOS supplementation?

XOS seemed quite potent when I took it, and it is pricey. Any thoughts on XOS?

Among polysaccharides, apart from chitin, have you tried, expect a benefit for most with NSP (like psyllium)?

Sorry to bombard with queries.

 

[NilaJones]

Thank you, @Sidereal and @Vegas ! It's been few weeks, and I still have the allergies, but I am used to them now. The body aches and malaise went back to 'normal' levels after a few days off RS, and I am now taking little bits intermittently.

I ate some parsnips last night, not realising they were high in RS, and wowsa!!! I had the intense dreams, which did not happen to me with tapioca starch. And lay awake for a couple hours in the night, too wired to sleep.

So I can confirm the different effects from different forms of RS!

@Vegas, I don't know if this is the place to ask, but could you tell me more about this, or point me in the right direction?

Some of the most potent inducers of this immunomodulation appear to have key roles in the metabolism of histidine.

I have not found an MD locally who can give me any insight, including the immunologist, into why high histamine foods, as well as flu shots and tamiflu, all give me dramatically increased inflammation. As do foods I am sensitive to (e.g. grains) -- in fact, this is how I define sensitive. Some, like gluten also give me fatigue, but not all. And folate and B12 help inflammation AND energy.

I am longing for some info on how these things are connected, though I don't know if RS is involved.

 

[Asklipia]

Intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase
http://gutcritters.com/intestinal-alkaline-phosphatase-gut-health/
This seems to have interesting effects on lowering LPS caused inflammation!
A very interesting post I hope someone will summarize.
I hope everyone is doing well!

 

[jepps]

My dysbiosis therapy is monitored from a doctor via frequencies. The last therapy my doctor said, that the candida was binding to the streptococcus, and now lost its bind, so it is less strong.
The research also shows that the candida when bound to the streptococcus, gets its pathogenicity.

http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.ppat.1003616

The coadhesion between C. albicans and oral bacteria is crucial for C. albicans colonization and persistence. In addition to providing adhesion sites, the streptococci excrete lactate that can act as a carbon source for yeast growth, which in turn reduces oxygen tension to levels preferred by streptococci and provide growth stimulatory factors for the bacteria [21. In fact, several in vitrostudies have shown that C. albicans enhance the adherence of S. mutans, indicating a possible facilitation mechanism during their association where the yeast cells could be used by the bacteria as support for adherence [17].

Candida and streps promote each other in its growth. The more bindings the pathogene microbes have, the longer lasts the leaky gut therapy. It would be a good thing in addition to RS+probiotics to address the biofilms.

I´m taking RS+fibres+probiotics+enzymes for the biofilm since 3 months, and my overall inflammation has reduced, also my high pulse rate is better.

My stool test, which did not show candida before taking this supplements, Shows highest candida rate since taking them.

Regards, jepps

 

[jepps]

Study about RS and colon cancer:
http://www.aacr.org/Newsroom/Pages/News-Release-Detail.aspx?ItemID=574#.VEStzvmsVCg

Eating Resistant Starch May Help Reduce Red Meat-related Colorectal Cancer Risk
8/4/2014
PHILADELPHIA — Consumption of a type of starch that acts like fiber may help reduce colorectal cancer risk associated with a high red meat diet, according to a study published inCancer Prevention Research, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research.

"Red meat and resistant starch have opposite effects on the colorectal cancer-promoting miRNAs, the miR-17-92 cluster,” said Karen J. Humphreys, PhD, a research associate at theFlinders Center for Innovation in Cancerat Flinders University in Adelaide, Australia. “This finding supports consumption of resistant starch as a means of reducing the risk associated with a high red meat diet.”
“Total meat consumption in the USA, European Union, and the developed world has continued to increase from the 1960s, and in some cases has nearly doubled,” added Humphreys.
Unlike most starches, resistant starch escapes digestion in the stomach and small intestine, and passes through to the colon (large bowel) where it has similar properties to fiber, Humphreys explained. Resistant starch is readily fermented by gut microbes to produce beneficial molecules called short-chain fatty acids, such as butyrate, she added.
“Good examples of natural sources of resistant starch include bananas that are still slightly green, cooked and cooled potatoes [such as potato salad], whole grains, beans, chickpeas, and lentils. Scientists have also been working to modify grains such as maize so they contain higher levels of resistant starch,” said Humphreys.
After eating 300 g of lean red meat per day for four weeks, study participants had a 30 percent increase in the levels of certain genetic molecules called miR-17-92 in their rectal tissue, and an associated increase in cell proliferation. Consuming 40 g of butyrated resistant starch per day along with red meat for four weeks brought miR-17-92 levels down to baseline levels.
The study involved 23 healthy volunteers, 17 male and six female, ages 50 to 75. Participants either ate the red meat diet or the red meat plus butyrated resistant starch diet for four weeks, and after a four-week washout period switched to the other diet for another four weeks.
This study was funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (Preventative Health Flagship), and the Flinders Medical Center Foundation. Humphreys declares no conflicts of interest.

Regards, jepps

 

[Gondwanaland]

It makes me really sad to post this since so many people are benefiting from potato starch (including me).

Paul Jaminet posted the following in the Perfect Health Diet Facebook group based on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8566598/:

Basically, RS-2 found in raw potato starch (or corn starch) is associated with higher incidence of colorectal cancer while RS-3 found in cooked then cooled starches is associated with lower rates of colorectal cancer. So, eat cooked then cooled starches, not raw potato starch.

 

[jepps]

Gondwanaland, Wikipedia says, RS2 reduces colon cancer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch

RS2 Resistant starch that occurs in its natural granular form, such as uncooked potato, green banana and high amylose corn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Flour

A pair of researchers found that adding 30% banana flour to yellow noodle recipes significantly increased the resistant starch content with almost no sensory/palatability difference from the control group.[29] In sum, banana flour’s combination of good nutritional content,[30] high resistant starch content, and excellent palatability gives it potential as a food additive in order to reduce societal rates of obesity, diabetes, and colon cancer. In some sense, researchers are suggesting adding resistant starches, like banana flour, to most food products in order to combat wide spread health issues much like many societies have added fluoride to drinking water in order to increase dental healt

Regards, jepps

 

[Sidereal]

It makes me really sad to post this since so many people are benefiting from potato starch (including me).

Paul Jaminet posted the following in the Perfect Health Diet Facebook group based on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8566598/:

I wouldn't necessarily worry about a rat study from 1996 when there are human studies showing benefits of RS2, in addition to quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that it can be helpful for all sorts of conditions. One can find a Pubmed abstract to support virtually any position.

 

[maddietod]

@jepps "A pair of researchers found that adding 30% banana flour to yellow noodle recipes significantly increased the resistant starch content with almost no sensory/palatability difference from the control group"

But as soon as you cook these yellow noodles made with 30% banana flour, you've lost the RS.

Earlier in the article it says "However, even in cooked products like pasta, the addition of banana flour increased total resistant starch content in appreciable amounts." I don't understand how this could be true.

 

[jepps]

@jepps
Earlier in the article it says "However, even in cooked products like pasta, the addition of banana flour increased total resistant starch content in appreciable amounts." I don't understand how this could be true.

Banana flour is RS2, cooked or uncooked. But this is a study, which compares the content of RS of cooked banana flor or raw banana flour. In the study, the excreted amount of butyric acid (therefore the amount of RS) was much higher with raw banana flour (figure 4).

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/75/1/104.long

 

[Gondwanaland]

I wouldn't necessarily worry about a rat study from 1996 when there are human studies showing benefits of RS2, in addition to quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that it can be helpful for all sorts of conditions.

In my own logic, it makes no sense that RS2 would be detrimental when it is actually helping with conditions that lead to CRC. What can cause me CRC: chronic constipation or RS2 which helps me w/ daily BMs? But who am I to argue w/ Jaminet...

One can find a Pubmed abstract to support virtually any position.

This is a fact.

P.S. unfortunately I can't handle the histamines in green bananas.

 

[jepps]

But who am I to argue w/ Jaminet...

Gondwanaland,

In the Jaminet-Forum very much user are profiting from RS and posted this in the Jaminet-Forum, Jaminet himself never replied anything negative about RS.
F.ex. this is an actual report about a mother of an autistic child:

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2014/09/reader-reports/

The second food that has been really good for him is resistant starch. We give him 1 TB of raw potato starch with his probiotic, 3 times a day, and he is so much more social and more affectionate than ever before! I was nervous to try it because my son does not digest most carbs or fiber well, and I was worried about the potential increase in SCFA (since some very compelling research by Dr Derrick MacFabe implicates propionic acid in autistic symptoms). But so far, we have seen no negatives and only wonderful results.

Maybe Jaminet message is to take PS only for therapeutic use, and not for lifetime. Long-therm we should switch to a diet, which contains a sufficient amount of RS. But the heal the colon RS from potatoe starch or banana flour is a good therapeuticum and easy to dose.

P.S. unfortunately I can't handle the histamines in green bananas.

So what is your RS source?

 

[Gondwanaland]

So what is your RS source?

Raw unmodified potato starch with yogurt (finally tolerating yogurt again after several months w/o it).

I have just reached 1 Tbs a couple of days ago and it seems to be really helping BMs.

izzy