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the psych lobby strikes again: DSM-5 v. WHO's ICD in the US

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by fresh_eyes, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. V99

    V99 *****

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    The site is up. Just had a quick look.



    So if you have no cognitive symptoms, you dont have Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder?
    What if some patients have no cognitvie symptoms, can a disease still be classified under Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder?
    :confused:
  2. Min

    Min Senior Member

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    They've really got us sewn up haven't they.
  3. valia

    valia Senior Member

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    cognitive distortions?
  4. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Wow, it's right out of the Wessely school handbook!
  5. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Suzy Chapman dxrevisionwatch.com

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  6. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    There was a great piece written about the way the DSM works in Harper's magazine:

    The encyclopedia of insanity: A psychiatric handbook lists a madness for everyone

    By L.J. (Lawrence J.) Davis

    http://www.harpers.org/archive/1997/02/0008270

  7. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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  8. V99

    V99 *****

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    Coffee nerves!!!

    Does that include Ben and Jerry's Coffee Coffee Buzz Buzz Buzz.
  9. julius

    julius Watchoo lookin' at?

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    I know this doesn't advance the objectives of this thread. But i'd like to make a point for any psychologists/psychiatrists who may be reading this thread.

    Psychology is one of the most important of human endeavors at the present time. Trying to understand what makes us tick is what humanity ought to be up to. But that should be happening in the domain of research, and research only. Your profession is in an infantile stage of development. In fact, I would say it's barely embryonic. It doesn't even have arm buds, or any features which would suggest what creature it will be if and when the time comes that it is fully developed.

    Please realize that you are not ready to be trying to diagnose or god forbid 'treat' anyone. Right now you are causing more harm than good.
  10. oerganix

    oerganix Senior Member

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    Good point. And I would like to point out that many of them know this to be true. In the discussion going on about the revision of the DSM there are psychologists who argue against the psychologizing of many diverse illnesses that many of their membership advocate. Some have accused their colleagues of being motivated by the profiting from prescriptons for drugs, etc, as well as for talk therapy, etc. One discussion there claimed that 54% had conflicts of interest such as owning stocks in drug companies that produce the drugs they prescribe. If they are talking about this amongst themselves, to me that is plenty of proof that this is going on and not some kind of paranoia on our part.

    This is HUGE and the fact that this division is happening within the profession tells me it is very important that the public and other practitioners weigh in on this debate. We need to let them know we do not accept this psychologizing of organic illnesses, that we are awake to what is going on. Time for a lot of public comment from us.

    [​IMG] Originally Posted by ME agenda [​IMG]
    APA News Release here in PDF format: http://www.dsm5.org/Newsroom/Documen...NAL%202.05.pdf

    New APA DSM-webpages: http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx

    Public comment period runs from 10 February thru 20 April. Online registration required.


    DSM-5 Watch site page: http://wp.me/PKrrB-jZ
  11. mezombie

    mezombie Senior Member

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    Another section to watch:

    [
  12. julius

    julius Watchoo lookin' at?

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    oerganix,

    I am acutely aware of the sinister things you mention. I don't think for a second that you are being paranoid. And I think this thread is a very important discussion.

    But I know that there are some, especially rookie, or even student psychologists who actually think they are going to 'help' people. And if my comments could make even one of them consider going into (legitimate) research, then it was worth writing. Especially if that research is directed at understanding what motivates people act so greedily and selfishly that they would destroy millions of lives jsut to advance their careers or fatten their already sufficient bank accounts.

    I don't have the cognitive faculties to really compete in this sort of complicated chess game, and I'm really happy i have people like you and the others on this thread on the front lines. All I can offer is my conclusions after having been a victim of these lot for 30 years.
  13. mezombie

    mezombie Senior Member

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    We need comments from the APA's peers

    This is the time to ask around and identify anyone who is a psychiatrist or psychologist friendly to our situation who has the time and would be willing to comment on the proposed revisions.
  14. fresh_eyes

    fresh_eyes happy to be here

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    mountains of north carolina
  15. oerganix

    oerganix Senior Member

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    I second that. I can only hope that my former shrink, who suffered from CFIDS too and had to quit work while I was his patient, is able to comment. He and I both knew that I had been assigned to him for CBT and that it was BS, just to keep the powers that be happy (state laws regarding my disability). So we had great conversations about whatever was on our minds that day and he renewed my prescription for the cheapest antidepressant drug on the market, which I bought using co-pay, and then flushed down the toilet, not wanting to "treat" the depression I didn't have, and having tried it to see if it would help with fatigue. It didn't.

    Marie, a question: When they mention "pain syndrome" does that cover fibromyalgia or is that something else?
  16. gracenote

    gracenote All shall be well . . .

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    Here are a couple of paragraphs from the article fresh eyes mentions: Psychiatry's Civil War.

  17. oerganix

    oerganix Senior Member

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    The name of the editorial just about says it all: Psychiatry's bible: Its time has passed
    Interesting to note that the DSM originated in the military in the 50s and was intended to ascertain fitness to serve in the military.
  18. mezombie

    mezombie Senior Member

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    Not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised. After all, fibromyalgia is considered a syndrome, a collection of symptoms. And while there is biomedical research explaining some of what happens in FM, it is not accepted by all. Plus diagnosis is by tenderpoint exam and a popular treatment is antidepressants such as Celexa. "Pain syndrome" would definitely cover myofascial pain syndrome (a close cousin to FM).

    I think it would be very easy to diagnose FM as a "pain syndrome" for DSM5 purposes from what we know so far.
  19. beckster

    beckster

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    What about other health professionals, such as general practictioners, neurologists, internists, D.O.s, physical therapists, pain docs, etc--those who really see the illness close up and deal with it. Are they commenting on this? What do the APA folks know about any of this anyway, as they are not the ones that treat back problems, migraines, ibs, etc etc etc . . . Anyone see any thing printed from this aspect?
  20. mezombie

    mezombie Senior Member

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    We should definitely get these type of docs to comment on this. Many are clinicians and may not be aware of the potential problems the new DSM holds for us.

    There is something in print on the difference between ME/CFS and Somatoformc Disorder in the Overview of the Canadian Consenus Document (starting on page 15).

    There are also several good studies by Leonard Jason (a psychologist with ME/CFS) distinguishing between ME/CFS and psychiatric disorders. If you google his name you should be able to find his website.

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