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Hunting down the cause of ME/CFS & other challenging disorders - Lipkin in London
In a talk to patients in London on 3rd September, Dr. W. Ian Lipkin described the extraordinary lengths he and his team are prepared to go to in order to track down the source of an illness, with examples ranging from autism to the strange case of Kawasaki disease.
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The Modern Diet

Discussion in 'Lifestyle Management' started by GcMAF Australia, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    Does the modern day fruit and vegetable suit our needs?
    As descendents of animals homo sapiens have evolved over millions of years.
    We are designed to eat meat and plants.
    Our genes and digestive systems are designed for a ceratin diet.
    With plant breeding modern day fruits and vegetables contain higher sweetness factors and less other nutriments.
    For example apples and lettuce would be higher in fructose levels and less bitter.
    But 60% of CFS people are intolerant of fructose, so society is setting up for a massive crash>
    The bitter components are probably anti inflammatory and give our immune system the correct balance.
    The use of fertiliser and quick growth of plants also amplifies the sweetness.
    Similarly the live stock is fed sweeter grass, they would be in an inflammatory condition. Then we eat the meat , which presumably passes on unwanted inflammatory cytokines.
     
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  2. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Bitter things also can play a role in helping our digestion... todays society's tastes are programmed for sweetnes as we are brought up on sugar and other things from children.
     
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  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    We evolved to like sweet things. However, that was in the context of natural fruits and vegetables.In evolutionary terms it helped us select between different foods. We, however, control our food supply in ways we are not adapted to ... this I agree with.

    I am less concerned about higher sugar than I am about lower nutrients. Barring farmers who practice repleneshing micronutrients via various strategies including organic farming, the failure to replace micronutrients means foods over time contain less and less of them if grown on the same land. This is not desirable.

    There is a name for high sugar low nutrient foods. Its not a coincidence we call them sweets. In other words, candy.

    Bye, Alex
     
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  4. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    At least with soybeans, an acre of ground can produce a set amount of protein. As you increase pounds/acre, you decrease protein/pound. When the soybeans are used for human consumption, that means that a person has to eat more beans to get the required amount of protein. That means more beans have to be transported from the agricultural areas to the urban areas where people live, which requires more fuel. Producing fewer, higher protein beans would be more efficient, but since farmers get paid by the pound, regardless of quality, they are going to produce as many pounds as possible.
     
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  5. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

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    I would say no on that one!

    Food is a commodity now, something to be produced for profit, never mind what it does to the consumers, and who cares how stripped the soil is. Even my now-grown children tell me that fruits and veggies are not the same as what they remember growing up. Their chief complaints are that they are watery, tasteless, and nowhere near the same in texture. Amen. I had thought it was just me for a while, buying cardboard fruits and veggies from a city store after being used to mostly homegrown and local produce.

    A little-known fact about soils and local regions: The weeds that grow in soil at any given time or place are actually perfect for the soil they are in and will contribute what the soil is lacking when plowed back in. They are cleared off just about anywhere anymore.

    Another little-known fact that just grosses me out: Synthetic fertilizers, with their famous three-number components, are based on the research of one German scientist who burned a body to determine what the body "needs." The remaining elements were mostly nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, and development of fertilizers grew up around some erroneous and/or incomplete conclusions by this scientist. Plants grow quickly and produce a lot of foliage and look wonderful... but are they as complete? NO.

    Now there are six elements considered vital for fertilizer, out of how many our bodies need? (Add calcium, magnesium, sulfur.)

    I remember watching my father send off soil samples for analysis over the years, and the report that came back was always based mainly on those three elements. He followed the advice religiously, feeding his soil with the "proper" components. Not to knock the three elements... but how many more could he have been adding? He thought he was building the soil properly with the best scientific knowledge to be had. This is someone who came from a very long line of farmers. (He never did farm much in adulthood, just kept it alive on a small scale while he taught high school.)

    Give me good ol' rabbit doo-doo for my garden any time! Hmmm... better watch what the bunny eats...
     
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  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I find that when I read about what people used to eat, especially those in the bottom half of society, modern diets seem pretty darn good.

    As a society, we could probably do with avoiding fat and sugar, but there also seem to be an awful lots of myths around diet, largely because we have such a poor understanding of how our bodies really work, and what a healthy diet really is.

    I've looked at the evidence for some things, and it all seems pretty speculative and unconvincing, including for very mainstream things (eg 'healthy' amounts of salt).

    Personally, I think that people are best off playing about, and doing what leaves them feeling best - everyone is probably different in how they respond to things. Try to get a range of fruit and veg, and not eat too much fat and sugar... eat nice food? If you get fat, try to eat a bit less. If you get thin, try to eat a bit more. Unless you have a very specific diagnosis, don't pay too much attention to people claiming to be experts (and even then, I was chatting to someone with Crohns who said that recently their diet advice from their doctor had almost totally changed recently, as they realised they'd been giving the wrong advice for ages!). Relax and play about imo.

    I've always preferred the flavour of more bitter fruits anyway - red berries etc.
     
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  7. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    The problems is we currently pretty much have an epidemic on our hands that is putting massive strain on health systems and is only getting worse, sugars and simple carbohydrate foods with little nutritional value is like crack cocaine for the masses, combine that with sedentary lifestyles and it is a diabolical situation. Not to mention that this starts at a young age and essentially has an impact on children's ability to concentrate, probably on IQ and impacts on how their whole life develops.

    Was just reading this earlier and personally I do not think it is an over exaggeration,

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...tose-corn-syrup-sugar-consumption-table-sugar

    The information in the famous Terry Wahls youtube TED talk can not be underestimated as well I believe, to me it hints at what causes some diseases as much as it shows possible treatments. She comments on shrinking brains and dysfunctional mitochondria linked to several serious diseases, hinting that there is likely a strong link there between diets probably being the largest factor. What she lays out is the closest we have to a perfect model for health and disease prevention IMO which can not be underestimated; we need massive reform across the board at least implementing some of this model, especially in schools.

    Could not agree more with Alex neither, the quality of fruits and vegetables from the average supermarket is so inferior to properly grown organic produce. Ever grow your own stuff at home? It is amazing the difference in colour, taste and I am sure micro-nutrient value.

    What is more scary is governments providing exemptions for large businesses who provide garbage food stuffs while farmers trying to do the right thing get no help at all, it should be the other way around. As Gracie points out it is all about profit and those with the deepest pockets have way too much influence over policy.
     
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  8. Vincent

    Vincent Senior Member

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    Profit AND depopulation! It's for the earth!! Modern environmentalism is 21st century communism.
     
  9. GracieJ

    GracieJ Senior Member

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    Interesting analogy, because when white sugar was first introduced, it was the "cocaine" of its day. The body just was not used to such an onslaught all at once. White sugar was kept under lock and key and was very expensive.

    Now we have a similar reaction with the flood of simple carbs everywhere you turn, messing up our health if we are not careful. Sad that less than 10% of the grocery store is safe to shop in, and with GMOs, pesticides, and stripped soils, not even that part is anymore.

    My kids hate it when I talk about this... it scares them. Not all is lost, and I do not talk about it to bemoan my fate or anyone else's. I think there is a lot of hope for the future. It lies in educating ourselves thoroughly about gardening, nutrition, and local food sources that better match our individual needs anyway -- and ultimately not worrying too much, as the bottom line is we have to eat something. Like Esther12 put it, "Relax and play about imo."
     
  10. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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  11. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    Well it is not all bad, there is some shift that people are going back to more wholesome foods, seeking out farmers markets, fresh produce and more growing their own on their properties; I know many more people are interested in home growing here in Australia.

    But what has been discussed is still a huge social problem, it is an age old human tendency to not worry about things until it is too late. We have good reason to take our diets very seriously but the average person does not look at it as being serious, aware of how it impacts their day to day life or worse pretends its fine. I just think socially it needs to be taken so much more seriously, I always find it ironic the hysteria over many illegal drugs when the largest problem is right under our noses, behaviours with food addictions pretty much resemble a drug addict as well.

    It is just the education and information needs to start coming from the top down and not the other way around.
     
  12. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    Some good comments at the end of this article as well, I found this one most interesting,

    "This reminds me of a documentary that Michael J. Fox participated in (the name escapes me now) where he visited Bhutan. It was a great privilege , since access to that place for outsiders is severely restricted. During his visit of a couple of weeks he suddenly noted that his need for medication to control his Parkinson's disease had fallen off sharply as his symptoms had suddenly inexplicably diminished. It was also obvious to the viewer that his tremors and spasms were almost undetectable. He had no idea what he was doing differently, and wondered whether it was the air , the diet, or perhaps the absence of electromagnetic fields in that relatively primitive setting."
     
  13. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I think Ikaria sound like a good place for an ME group home. Besides the healthful food and environment, our lifestyle would fit in. Our sleeping schedules and napping would fit right in. Being at a certain place at a certain time would not be an issue. The only problem would be the hills, and for some, the wine.

    Oh, I see that they have donkeys, so the hills would not be a problem. Fresh air, fresh food, daily naps, thermal springs, and donkeys - what more could one want in life?

    P.S. You have to have an account to comment or reply, which I do not. If anyone here has an account, would you inform m from Ohio that Okinawa is a Japanese island south of the main island. The cities that were bombed are Hiroshima and Nagasaki. {What do they teach kids in school these days! :rolleyes: }
     

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