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The Mental Elf: Simon Wessely on PACE

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
MEA response now on the blog:

Simon

I'm sure you are aware of the results from our latest quantitative and qualitative report on ME/CFS and the acceptability, efficacy and safety of CBT, GET and Pacing

The results yet again confirm previous patient evidence indicating that CBT is often ineffective and that GET makes their condition worse

So please could you address the issue of why consistent and robust patient evidence over many years is just not consistent with the results from clinical trials involving these two treatments?

The MEA recommendations following on from this research are as follows:

RECOMMENDATIONS
Our part 1 recommendations are based on the full results from our survey in respect of the three main therapeutic approaches to illness management, and are as follows:

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)

We conclude that CBT in its current delivered form should not be recommended as a primary intervention for people with ME/CFS.

CBT courses, based on the model that abnormal beliefs and behaviours are responsible for maintaining the illness, have no role to play in the management of ME/CFS and increase the risk of symptoms becoming worse.

The belief of some CBT practitioners that ME/CFS is a psychological illness was the main factor which led to less symptoms improving, less courses being appropriate to needs, more symptoms becoming worse and more courses being seen as inappropriate.

Our results indicate that graded exercise therapy should form no part of any activity management advice employed in the delivery of CBT, as this also led to a negative impact on outcomes.

There is a clear need for better training among practitioners. The data indicates that deemed lack of knowledge and experience had a direct effect on outcomes and remained a key factor even where courses were held in specialist clinics or otherwise given by therapists with an ME/CFS specialism.

However, our results did indicate that when used appropriately the practical coping component of CBT can have a positive effect in helping some patients come to terms with their diagnosis and adapt their lives to best accommodate it.

CBT was also seen to have a positive effect in helping some patients deal with comorbid issues – anxiety, depression, stress – which may occur at any time for someone with a long-term disabling illness.

An appropriate model of CBT – one that helps patients learn practical coping skills and/or manage co-morbid issues such as those listed above – could be employed, where appropriate, for ME/CFS as it is for other chronic physical illnesses such as multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, cancer, heart disease, and arthritis etc.; and we recommend all patients should have access to such courses as well as access to follow-up courses and/or consultations as and when required.

Graded Exercise Therapy (GET)

We conclude that GET should be withdrawn with immediate effect as a primary intervention for everyone with ME/CFS.

One of the main factors that led to patients reporting that GET was inappropriate was the very nature of GET itself, especially when it was used on the basis that there is no underlying physical cause for their symptoms, and that patients are basically ill because of inactivity and deconditioning.

A significant number of patients had been given advice on exercise and activity management that was judged harmful with symptoms having become worse or much worse and leading to relapse.

And it is worth noting that, despite current NICE recommendations, a significant number of severe-to-very severe patients were recommended GET by practitioners and/or had taken part in GET courses.

The other major factor contributing to poor outcomes was the incorrect belief held by some practitioners that ME/CFS is a psychological condition leading to erroneous advice that exercise could overcome the illness if only patients would ‘push through’ worsening symptoms.

We recognise that it is impossible for all treatments for a disease to be free from side-effects but, if GET was a licensed medication, we believe the number of people reporting significant adverse effects would lead to a review of its use by regulatory authorities.

As a physical exercise-based therapy, GET may be of benefit to a sub-group who come under the ME/CFS umbrella and are able to tolerate regular and progressive increases in some form of aerobic activity, irrespective of their symptoms. However, identifying a patient who could come within that sub-group is problematic and is not possible at present.

Some patients indicated that they had been on a course which had a gentle approach of graded activity rather than a more robust and structured approach of graded physical exercise. There were some reports that patients were told they should not exercise when they felt too unwell to do so. These led, for some, to an improvement in symptoms or to symptoms remaining unaffected.

However, we conclude that GET, as it is currently being delivered, cannot be regarded as a safe and effective form of treatment for the majority of people with ME/CFS. The fact that many people, including those who consider themselves severely affected, are being referred to specialist services for an intervention that makes them either worse or much worse is clearly unacceptable and in many cases dangerous.

GET should therefore be withdrawn by NICE and from NHS specialist services as a ‘one size fits all’ recommended treatment with immediate effect for everyone who has a diagnosis of ME/CFS. This advice should remain until there are reliable methods for determining which people who come under the ME/CFS umbrella are likely to find that GET is a safe and effective form of management.

Pacing

Pacing was consistently shown to be the most effective, safe, acceptable and preferred form of activity management for people with ME/CFS and should therefore be a key component of any illness management programme.

The benefit of Pacing may relate to helping people cope and adapt to their illness rather than contributing to a significant improvement in functional status. Learning coping strategies can help make courses more appropriate to needs even if they do not lead to immediate or even longer term improvement in symptoms.

For some, improvement may be a slow process so, whilst they may be somewhat better by the end of the course, the improvement is not enough to take them into a better category of severity for some time, perhaps not until they have self-managed their illness for a few years.

Pacing can be just as applicable to someone who is severely affected, as to someone who is mildly or moderately affected, although additional measures need to be taken to ensure that a person who is severely affected has equal access to services.

However, proposed increases in activity, both mental and physical, must be gradual, flexible and individually tailored to a patient’s ability and circumstance, and not progressively increased regardless of how the patient is responding.

There must be better training for practitioners who are to deliver such management courses and all patients should have access to suitable courses, follow-up courses and/or consultations as and when required.



The full MEA report can be read here:
http://www.meassociation.org.uk/how-you-can-help/fundraising-support/
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Incidentally, there are some interesting comments from people who took part in the PACE trial over on the MEA Facebook discussion on this blog from SW:
https://www.facebook.com/ME-Association-171411469583186/

The page is not available.

It would be very useful if we could document that patients in "specialist medical care" arm actually didn't receive any treatment, or that only a part of patients did (yet another thing making interpretation impossible).

An alternative explanation is that they enrolled patients but decided to keep some out of all treatment arms... which reeks like another way to bias the results.

Something is fishy here and it would be good to investigate more closely.

Does anyone have any more information on this?
 
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JayS

Senior Member
Messages
195
It sort of stands to reason that 'specialist medical care' from the PACE team would be...nothing. Wasn't it said for a long time even before PACE that CBT & GET were the only 'evidence-based' treatments?

Well, if so, it's all one would be able to receive. And in a trial testing the efficacy of these two, unless I'm completely misunderstanding, I would almost expect they would be withheld, with nothing in their place, since...there isn't anything else that specialist medical care is authorized to deliver. I wondered about this for some time. I mean, it's not like these patients were going to be offered Ampligen or even low-dose Naltrexone...
 

Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
Has anyone ever studied the possible adverse effects on patients recruited for a trial, probably with some degree of optimism, only to be allocated to a group receiving no attention? One might expect the opposite of the placebo effect to come into play.
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
Has anyone ever studied the possible adverse effects on patients recruited for a trial, probably with some degree of optimism, only to be allocated to a group receiving no attention? One might expect the opposite of the placebo effect to come into play.

There was a review which found that waiting list controls did worse than treatment as usual.
 

Kyla

ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ
Messages
721
Location
Canada
Has anyone ever studied the possible adverse effects on patients recruited for a trial, probably with some degree of optimism, only to be allocated to a group receiving no attention? One might expect the opposite of the placebo effect to come into play.
Opposite of placebo = nocebo. And I would say Wesseley and crew tried to induc as much of it as possible by hyping CBT/get to apt and non-treatment arm
 

Simon

Senior Member
Messages
3,789
Location
Monmouth, UK
Don't think these interesting responses to Simon Wessley's Mental Elf blog have been posted here yet.
Andrew Kewley
View 2 hours

It is notable that Simon Wessely does not address the biggest weakness of the trial, the one that makes the results uninterpretable: the reliance on self report questionnaires.

Self report questionnaires are not reliable during unblinded trials and especially with therapies designed to modify cognitions. It is likely that questionnaire answering behaviour changed (as patients were more optimistic) with little to no underlying change in disability or behaviour. We know this because similar studies of CBT/GET showed no difference on objective measures of functioning, despite improvement on self-report scores. In the PACE trial, there were no improvements in fitness, or employment status*, indeed patients were far more likely to be on welfare after the trial than before, regardless of the group they were randomised to.

If the the self-reporting is biased in the short term, then we would predict the difference between groups would disappear in the long term. That is exactly what was shown in the followup study.

Lastly, the published data does not suggest that treatments after the trial finished had any effect either.
One of the authors, Peter White stated “We chose (subjective) self-ratings as the primary outcomes, since we considered that the patients themselves were the best people to determine their own state of health.”
Here is the message loud and clear: The patient community does not believe that subjective self-reports are a vaild way to measure outcomes in an unblinded trial.

Such data would be considered invalid in a pharmacological trial, so why the double standard with non-pharmacological trials?

The patient community was consulted before the trial and proposed actigraphy as a key measure. It was the authors of the trial that rejected this suggestion as they decided it was too difficult. Other suggestions have been made, such as repeat exercise (2 day) testing (unfortunately only suitable for higher functioning patients) and neuropsychological testing.

* Several trials of CBT for CFS patients have been conducted during economic booms and found to have no effect on employment status.

Grumpy Ninja
View 2 hours
Prof. Wessely says:

“The findings of the long term follow up are clear. There was no deterioration from the one year gains in patients originally allocated to CBT and GET. Meanwhile those originally allocated to SMC and APT improved so that their outcomes were now similar. What isn’t clear is why. It may be because many had CBT and GET after the trial, but it may not. “

The two core findings in the 2.5 year follow-up paper from PACE are:

1. There was no difference in therapeutic effect between all four trial arms.

2. There was no therapeutic advantage from adding CBT and/or GET to APT or SMC. [note this refers to APT and SMC patients who later had CBT or GET]

1 + 2 = no benefit from CBT and/or GET over APT or, much more importantly, over SMC (standard medical care).

This is a clear null result for the cognitive-behavioural model tested in PACE, and so assiduously promoted by Prof. Wessely for a quarter century now.

Yet, Prof. Wessely goes on to say:

“(CBT and GET) are superior to adaptive pacing or standard medical treatment, when it comes to generating improvement in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome,…“

No, they are not, and you should stop saying that they are, and accept that it is time to abandon the cognitive-behavioural model of CFS.

Grumpy Ninja

- See more at: http://www.nationalelfservice.net/o...-seas-but-a-prosperous-voyage/#comment-977969
 
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A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
@Hutan can you show me where exactly you found this patient report? I looked on facebook but couldn't find it.
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
Wessely's response is so weak. Anyone who has any understanding of the issues around PACE will see through it in an instant. He's still able to dominate the narrative, but they've got nothing more than prestige and charm to support their arguments. I fear that could be enough to keep PACE afloat for a while longer yet. Lets see.
 

Yogi

Senior Member
Messages
1,132
Short post:

Thank you to every forum member posting AND to the bloggers AND to the Twitterati amongst us who are countering this bullshit (sorry hate swearing but best description available). Special thanks also to James Coyne and Jonathan Edwards. The psychobabblers strategy seems now to be not to discuss the science but just to spray the bullshit everywhere to cover the PACE mess knowing we are ill and can't keep responding. There are alot of us who are ill from the last few weeks so I am sure I speak for everyone who isn't able to that we appreciate what you are all doing. Once rested and recuperated, we will analyse and respond properly and in detail to this manure. Thank you TEAM!!
 
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Jonathan Edwards

"Gibberish"
Messages
5,256
@Jonathan Edwards - are you aware of this article?

I am happy that Dr Wessely has performed to order in demonstrating that the PACE-associated community have no understanding of the flaws of the trial (as detailed in my memo on MEAction).

'I am well informed about clinical trials in general'

I agree with James Coyne: there is little point in my responding when the case is being made for us.
Well done to all who are contributing sensible comments though.

I have to say that things are getting more surreal by the minute. I seem to remember Simon Wessely saying to me that he preferred not to get involved in internet debates. Oh, and also that it would be out of character for a member of the PACE team to make unreasonable claims about the trial and the criticism it has received.

A phrase I used a while ago comes to mind - 'out of place'.
 

user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
I have to say that things are getting more surreal by the minute. I seem to remember Simon Wessely saying to me that he preferred not to get involved in internet debates. Oh, and also that it would be out of character for a member of the PACE team to make unreasonable claims about the trial and the criticism it has received.

A phrase I used a while ago comes to mind - 'out of place'.

He gets involved in internet debates a little bit including on twitter but I also remember him debating in a comments section (possibly of a paper but I think a blog). What he does however, is pick which points he wants to discuss and ignore the more difficult ones that people raise.