The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

The Mental Elf: A PACE-gate or an editorial without perspectives? Kjetil Gundro Brurberg

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Cheshire, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    After publishing Wessely's ship metaphor, The Mental Elf intervenes once again in the PACE debate.With a clear allegiance to the PACE team.
    https://www.nationalelfservice.net/...ce-gate-or-an-editorial-without-perspectives/
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
    slysaint, Woolie, Dolphin and 15 others like this.
  2. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    They don't understand anything about the criticism made against PACE special CBT:

     
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Laugh or cry? I think I will sigh instead. o_O
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Yes, they are getting into the debate without examining the facts. CBT as applied elsewhere, such as cancer, is a very different therapy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I glanced at the full article. Uggghhh. The technical faults, which are numerous and eggregious, are OK apparently. They should try reading the commentaries from scientists all around the world. This is not up to scientific standards, and while psychiatrists etc. deem such poor standards are acceptable there will be little improvement in the profession.

    I might try reading the full thing later.
     
  6. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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  7. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Another blog makes itself irrelevant.
     
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  8. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Apart from the random use of commas, this looks like the output from a random word generator (and makes about as much sense).

    "expected efficacy"? What's that, then? Is it efficacy or not? Or is it hypothetical efficacy, that BPS speciality?

    "useful"? "a matter of personal preferences [sic]"? What is he saying here? That the treatment is efficacious but in ways that a sick person might not find useful? Like, er, not making them any less sick? Or making them more sick?

    Honestly, what total bullshit.

    I see that the author ...

    - https://www.nationalelfservice.net/author/kjetil-gundro-brurberg/

    Oh, dear. More to come.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  9. AndyPR

    AndyPR Cookies for Tired Sam

    I liked this joke, looks like it's used through out the site :rofl:
    Screen Shot 2017-07-19 at 09.31.48.png

    It's to be expected that PACE authors and their buddies would fight against the truth being told. Like I've said before though, in a way this proves that we are making progress, if they weren't concerned then they just wouldn't bother writing that sort of thing.
     
  10. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    The ad for their website made me chuckle, it says reliable research :') .
     
  11. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    Is that ye old reference to authority again, or am I misreading the situation?
     
  12. lilpink

    lilpink Senior Member

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    I can see why Marks et al rejected it..it is absolutely just 'more of the same' rubbishy attempts to justify their rubbishy work which we have heard ad infinitum, so it doesn't add to the body of knowledge and therefore is redundant in a journal context. I also thought bringing up the 'ship' allusion was a bit of an own goal in that we know it was extended to observe that " Few trials suffer the fate of the Titanic, but sometimes the ship gets to the USA, but not to New York, but some other place; destination changed en route, which is considered bad form ". Not getting to your predetermined destination ( predetermined PACE Trial result) is somehow 'bad form' when in science there should be no destination, or at least if there is it's only a guide whilst an attempt is made to disprove that 'destination' that you or others have 'discovered' . It's only through trying to disprove an hypothesis that science moves forward.

    Bruberg's commentary sounds desperate. Gandhi's old chestnut, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" seems apposite. They're not going down without a fight clearly... but by heck they're going down. HMS PACE has struck an iceberg, the irony being the school that supports PACE have towed that iceberg into view by their own junk science. 'Hoist by their own petard' and all that!
     
  13. Stewart

    Stewart Senior Member

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    "First they ignore you, then they accuse you of an 'anti-science' campaign of harrassment, then they try to sidestep your legitimate criticisms of flawed methodologies, then you win."

    Hmm. Gandhi's version is punchier. :)
     
  14. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    With the opportunity for legitimate scientists to post a rebuttal right beneath the article this whole thing might be an own goal.
     
  15. AndyPR

    AndyPR Cookies for Tired Sam

    We will have to see how long they last, typically an owner of a blog has total power to just delete any comment they choose.
     
  16. lilpink

    lilpink Senior Member

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    Indeed..I wouldn't be aggrieved to find the Journal of Health psychology had reassessed their decision and published it after all ;)

    Edit: But this opportunity to comment at Mental Elf could be useful!
     
  17. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    Anyone know more about this statement?
     
  18. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member

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  19. lilpink

    lilpink Senior Member

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    When PR requires a :heart: icon rather than just a 'like' :)
     
  20. Solstice

    Solstice Senior Member

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    True, they are getting a lot of comments quickly though. Having people read the article at present and then reading the comments can't be good for their cause. Or i'm giving possible readers to much credit.
     

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