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The Lightening Process. Does it work? If so then how?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Ambrosia_angel, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Ambrosia_angel

    Ambrosia_angel Senior Member

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    Hi I'm hoping people can shed some light on how the lightening process works. I've come across so many things about it and a lot seem to be positive considering its not a physical(correct me if I'm wrong) treatment. But I can't seem to find anything about what actually happens while people are doing it. The only thing I seem to relate it to is hypnotherapy?

    Also is it worth it? I'd do anything to improve my health even if it possible means having to go through a junk of bad treatments too. Has anyone here done it? If so then what's your advice?
     
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  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    It's really just a very systematic form of positive thinking, with a lot of imagined authority for the trainer and some sciencey sounding buzz-words which can all help manipulate patients into thinking there's more to their unfounded claims than there really is.

    Hypnotherapy is probably not a bad comparison.

    Some people within the CFS heap could find this sort of thing helpful, but I find these sorts of things pretty disgusting tbh. Personally, I'm not keen on junk therapies, and don't think that trying this sort of thing is likely to be helpful... but I'm still ill!

    I think we'd be in a better position if the money spent on stuff like this was put into worthwhile research instead.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
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  3. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Confidence trick.
    "Dance and sing and YOU WILL BE CURED, now pay up!" :p
    worked for charlatans for thousands of years.

    positive thinking helps one deal with issues, it does not cure gross damage/disease.
    Any freak who tried to claim LP cured Multiple Sclerosis for example would get ass reamed , possibly jailed if people came to harm.
    But, because ME has been pushed into the "gaslight bullshit" territory, to deny it's existence, why, everything is rosy in Theresienstadt ! *face palm*

    alas, the irony is that better communication has allowed more foolish people to do things that "sound good", or outright confidence tricks to be learned, or even better ways to go about terrible evils and get away with them.​
     
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  4. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    All LP (Lightning Process) seems to be is saying motivational statements, not allowing yourself to think about "bad" or "negative" thoughts like having symptoms or being sick (even if this is reality), and deciding to think (er, being manipulated into thinking) about yourself as healthy.

    Plus there may be some kind of gag rule (if you don't like it, you may have to promise not to tell others, and even if you do like it, you might not supposed to say what the protocol is).

    It seems to me that LP would interfere with managing symptoms. Just because you notice symptoms (I am having x symptom) is not a "bad" or "negative" thought and is necessary to figure out what to do about it (e.g., normal symptom hungry--> may be eat... disease symptom lightheaded-->may be drink and lie down).

    Simply denying symptoms would be creating a false world. Lots of people try this--normally when initiated by the patient it's called denial

    and denial is considered not the best coping strategy in the book to carry out long term, but it's normal, most of us have been there at some point, sometimes off and on--certainly that was my main strategy at one point when I wasn't diagnosed and the doctors had no clue what to do and neither did I.... but it probably made me worse.

    However when denial is specifically induced by the therapist as if it were a treatment, I would think that would be profoundly unethical.

    So if you want someone to talk to, you may like to find a support group or get a recommendation for a good supportive counselor. There is no good evidence cognitive therapy can help your disease; it could help your coping and quality of life, if that's what you're looking for help for.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
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  5. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I believe it is based on Neuro linguistic programming - a very useful technique for people wanting to achieve goals or overcome obstacles etc. in their lives. It is based I think on 'reframing' ones thoughts by shouting in your mind STOP at the symptom and then carrying on as if it isn't happening - you probably also look up to the left or right or whatever when saying it so that it 'fixes' in your brain. The LP people say that they believe M.E IS a physical illness - that our amygdala (sp?) in the brain is stuck into some sort of fight or flight response and we need to re programme it so that we no longer have these symptoms that the brain is making.

    I have used NLP in the past for things like fear of flying and for getting my swimming technisque better etc. I don't think it is going to cure a real organic illness. I don't think it would work on MS patients, cancer patients, AIDS patients etc etc. I have a blood test that shows mitochondrial dysfunction, nutritional deficiencies, very high cell free DNA and am about to undergo further testing which may or may not show up chronic infections or underling immune dysfunction. I am not sure how LP can help with these.

    It costs a lot of money that may be better spent on testing and treatment?

    On the other hand I am very interested to know HOW people who claim to have recovered have done it. There are many many people on the internet who claim to be cured by LP - I know everyone jumps on them and says they never had 'real M.E' but they often claim to have bedbound, wheelchair bound etc etc. I wish we knew more about these 'cured ' patients.

    Also on yet another hand the LP practitioner will screen out anyone who they thin will not benefit from the process - a bit like Derren Borwne does on the telly when he works out who is the most susceptible to being hypnotised!
     
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  6. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

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    Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) found the Phil Parker Group (Lightning Process) guilty twice of making false misleading claims in its advertising (in 2012 and again in 2013). Other Lightning Trainers have been “done” by the ASA too

    http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...tion-on-phil-parker-group-ltd-22-august-2012/



    http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2013/3/Phil-Parker-Group-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_210374.aspx

    “The claims must not appear again in their current form. We welcomed the decision to remove the claims. We told Phil Parker Group not to make claims on websites within their control that were directly connected with the supply of their goods and services if those claims could not be supported with robust evidence. We also told them not to refer to conditions for which advice should be sought from suitably qualified health professionals.”




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





    ‘The Lightning Process Didn't Work For me’ (describes the course too)

    http://sallycats.hubpages.com/hub/The-Lightning-Process-Didnt-Work-For-me
     
  7. Min

    Min Senior Member

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  8. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    This stood out for me from Sallycat's experience of doing the ;LP. It's sad but actually made me laugh a bit:


    http://sallycats.hubpages.com/hub/The-Lightning-Process-Didnt-Work-For-me
     
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  9. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Hypnotherapy is a respectable and incredibly useful medical tool when used properly.
    It is abused by stage performers.

    It has nothing in common with the lightening-your-wallet process, which is about jumping onto different sheets of paper with labels on them, to help you to decide you are not going to "do" ME any more.

    It's the pairing of an action with the decision that theoretically helps reinforce your decision.

    Similar to having a picture to look at while learning to read a word helps to reinforce the learning.
    Simple psychological technique, a bit CBT-ish.

    It is pure pseudoscience. ME is not caused by a sustained release of adrenalin, which is phil parker's (not-properly qualified in medicine or science) "theory" of ME.

    You will not get better by pretending you're not sick.


    It's hard to work out what his academic qualifications actually are. I believe he has invented and awarded himself a fair few. According to his home page, he is currently doing a PhD at London Met.
     
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    my limited understanding is those using LP werent allowed to say it wasnt helping or say they felt bad as this was negative thought process and dysrupts the healing process, whatever that means. Years ago when i looked into it, it reminded me of something sir wessely would promote as it seem to make out that its the negative illness belief thats the issue.

    Personally i would like to see them test people before hand with nk function tests, viral titres etc and then after being on LP and show improvements of the physical issues responding to the thought process. I can guess the answer and probably the same reason why they havent dont such a study.
     
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  12. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    If people could 'think' themselves well, not only would it work for ME, it should work for all other illnesses. If people could think themselves well there would be no need for medicine or stupid money grabbing programs like LP.

    Why is ME lumped in with a whole bunch of psychiatric problems that involve 'stuckness'. How bloody insulting and he gets away with this.

    Phil Parker says:

    Yup, I really want to 'get better at ME', I guess I am just not doing it right. Migraines? Puleez -- I get silent ocular migraines triggered by bright light from my laptop. Perhaps, I could cope with that by turning the brightness down rather than pay Parker any amount of money. What if the LP programs triggers migraines -- that would be really bad. :rofl: Bad back -- why not just work on your posture etc. The bottom line of his whole program is that he is blaming people for thinking about things in the wrong manner -- reminds me of somebody else.

    There certainly ways people could use positive thinking related to things unrelated to actual physical illness but still you don't need to pay Parker for this.

    He may want us not to 'do' ME, well I am not going to 'do' LP. :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
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  13. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    Pretending that we're not really ill, or that we're not as ill as we really are, and acting accordingly is what has made most people with ME much worse. We're already under enough social pressure to do that already. Most of us need to learn how to slow down and do less, not more.
     
  14. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Kina
    bad backs, migraines, ah, today's "demonic possession" and "black magic hexes"! :p
    i.e. anything without a simple answer = automatically fair game for being "gamed"

    "stuckness"...yes, I'd like a pack of frenzied meth-amphetamine chugging, sex-starved baboons to get "stuck" up Wessely, White etc's asses!

    *imagines bunch of psychs being chased around by mad, horny primates to the tune of the Benny Hill chase* :p

     
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  15. Min

    Min Senior Member

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    from Private Eye magazine (#1248)

    Under "Legal News" (p. 10)


     
  16. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    He's invented a new word, you know - "du" with funny accents on, to describe do-ing (now du-ing) his trademarked "processes".

    Cognitive "Science" tried to come up with another new word too.
    e-motions - as they made some sort of attempt to incorporate those difficult things, emotions, into their "logical mind" god.

    I couldn't help but giggle. e-motions sounds as if it means a load of poo flying about cyber space - and that's about right for anything "cognitive".
     
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  17. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    I've had a read around the Skeptic site.
    Unfortunately, it says that CBT and GET have been scientifically proven to help "CFS".
    I don't much like what is says about hypnotherapy either.
    You can't blame hypnotherapy itself for the way it has been abused by the folk practising it, or the stupid theories they use it in conjunction with - such as "past life regression" or trying to "recover memories", both of which are nonsense and could never be anything more than confabulation.
     
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  18. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I think the odds of the lightning process working are about the same as getting struck by lightning. :lol::rofl::woot::lol:

    Come on, someone had to say it! :rolleyes:

    Barb
     
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  19. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I read on one of the comments on Sallys article that someone who had got better by doing the LP also claimed their frined was recovering from MS by doing it. They also claim that the MS society are looking into endorsing it and are in talks with Phil Parker about it - don't know if this is true.

    Justy
     
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  20. Ambrosia_angel

    Ambrosia_angel Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I didn't expect so many. This is obviously a problem in the cfs/me community. I didn't actually realize it was directly advertised at cfs patients :/. They mention medical conditions as if it helps an array of illnesses and not just cfs. I guess that's just to make us feel as if we're not lumped in with the anxiety and stress group..

    I'm actually mentioning this thread because I just came across a blog and she claimed to be cured by the LP. Funny thing is that I was actually looking at bloated tummy stuff then came across it on Google images. Here's the original blog post I read. I realized after reading around some more that she seems to be an advertiser. Seems a bit suspicious? Opinions on this?

    I tried the lightening process unknowingly one evening lol. Took £0 and I ended up with very bad legs the next day. Worse they had been since I was ill. Woke up with them feeling extremely heavy and weak. I didn't realise it was so easy as saying I'm fine over and over again. Why the hell would you pay for that? I'm a very positive person but if saying your fine over and over again gets you better then you were probably fine to begin with. I do think, thinking (extremely) positive can help mentally because it has helped me cope with this better. But it hasn't cured me physically.

    The medical/alternative medical industry is disgusting though. They ask for up to £1000 for a few session to teach you how to not thing negatively when you could explain that in half a leaflet. Makes me sick honestly and I don't need to be ill anymore than I am.
    Does anyone know people on here who have done the LP? Would be cool to get a completely uncensored version of how it hasn't helped. I was thinking it was strange that I couldn't find many testimonials online. Even the ones on action for me seemed a little... off?
     

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