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The H2S Test Poll Part I: ME/CFS Patients

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Cort, Jul 10, 2009.

?

I Have ME/CFS and I've Taken Dr. De Meirleirs H2S Test. My Results Were (Drum Roll)..

  1. Negative: the solution did not change in color

    8 vote(s)
    13.6%
  2. Moderately positive: the solution had a light yellow-green to light green color

    11 vote(s)
    18.6%
  3. Strongly positive: the solution had a strong green to blue color

    40 vote(s)
    67.8%
  1. rfymf

    rfymf Guest

    A comment regarding shipping

    The test kit does not endure room temp for long. The kits I got the first time
    using regular oversees mail had spent a few days in transit, and changed
    color (like was mentioned above by someone).

    The lab was gracious to send me a new kit with no charge. This time I have paid for door-to-door FedEx delivery, and the kit arrived in the documented color (more or less).

    For me - the fast shipment plus customs handling more than doubled the price
    (but it is still reasonable).

    r.
  2. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Came out of my crash.....all the labs with Dr Peterson looked good. Back on track with getting better on Vistide, although xmrv is going to have implications for the treatment. I should get the results for that this next trip.

    Someone may have brought this is already but, isn't Dr. Kenny still connected with the VIP (RedLab) lab in Reno and therefore, maybe have the test kits there?
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    thanks Athene. Good luck with your treatment and I hope, if you feel comfortable doing that, that you can keep us apprised of how it goes.
  4. kolowesi

    kolowesi Senior Member

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    Ross Athene and all H2S update

    Thanks you guys for the great info. I'm sorry your bacterial infex are so bad, Athene. Ross, that's awesome you got better. Maybe it was a healing crisis:)

    Yesterday, I had a darkfield microscope analysis done by an MD. Hardly any pathogens or fungus (I take diflucan and nystatin and antibiotics and valtrex), but the signs of a bad bacterial and/or fungal overgrowth in the bowel.

    I already knew that, but it's good to have it verified. My H2S was strong positive.

    I took a week's worth of xifaxan ($238). It didn't help much. I've been trying to stick to caveman eating, only my cavemen are in France, where they have chocolate. I went back on equilibrant, which helps my gut symptoms but causes autoimmune, so I'm only taking 1/2 per day.

    The big thing is, a hair analysis showed I was low on 9 minerals, and a blood test showed I was low on protein, which I eat 3 times a day! So it has to be low stomach acid. I wonder how many of us have this.

    Acidophilus means "acid-loving," so when we are low on acid, it makes it hard for the good guys to stick around. I've been taking a very pricey probiotic, and it's been wasted! Plus low minerals means all kinds of biochem pathways don't work right.

    For treatment, I'm taking slippery elm on an empty stomach to help heal the inside of the stomach. DGL works too but gave me side effects, and I can't take much licorice root as my BP goes high.

    Then with meals and mid-morning when I take minerals, I'm taking one HCL Pepsin. As soon as it gets here, I'll be taking PepZinGl, which is zinc carnosine and some other stuff and it sounds great from the reviews, really helps heal the stomach.

    I can tell a difference in my symptoms already. (stinkiness much better:p) I am mad that I've been wasting so many supplements, but hey, at least I'm onto it now. They symptoms for low stomach acid are very similar to high stomach acid, so anyone who's been prescribed acid-blockers, beware of this possibility.

    Sorry I can't organize my thoughts, I am fried. Thanks for the information about Dr KdM, I am a fan.

    Kelly
  5. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Hi Kelly 'n all,

    When I saw KDM he advised me to take Betaine HCL once per day with the main meal, continue with the enzyme tabs and to add zinc orotate. So you have those ideas already..:)
    The Betaine will break down the protein so it's absorbed. The enzyme tabs break down the fats, starch and sugars.

    My doc has recommended a probiotic by Bioceuticals called SB Flor Activ, Saccharomyces cerevisiae (boulardii) which is meant to promote the "good guy's" bacteria rather than taking the bifidus (that I'd found good) previously.

    Anyway, good luck with your new regime...:)
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That is very interesting, Bettine, that you got two different H2S results across a two week interval. If money were no object, it would very interesting to see if the measured H2S level, as determined by the Neurotoxic Metabolite Test, followed daily the ups and downs of ones CFS symptoms.

    Most people with CFS/ME have variations in health from day to day, and week to week. If ones daily H2S level measurements were to roughly follow the subjective assessment of how you feel on each day, it would certainly help further validate H2S involvement in CFS.

    It would nice to be able to buy whole month's worth of daily H2S Neurotoxic Metabolite Test urine tests, or just a large bottle of the test solution (at a reasonable price), so as to chart ones daily symptom severity against H2S levels measured daily.

  7. xlynx

    xlynx Senior Member

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    I have taken the H2S test and my went instantly dark blue and black within about 10 seconds.

    Rich I tolerate Epsom Bath Salts with no problem I find it relaxes me and feel good after.

    I havent spoken to my doctor about it yet so not really sure what to do about it?

    I actually bought two and will try the next one next week. Wanted to check after eating a different meal in the evening changed the result. Also I had a bath with Epsom salts the night before the test I wander if that could have effected it?
  8. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    I think the H2S test is really a preliminary test for further gut and immune system investigations.

    A very positive result to the H2S test is an indicator of gut dysbiosis and probably an associated problem with mercury and other metals.

    "In the extremely ill, urine added to the yellow color reagent immediately turns dark blue, whereas in the less ill the reaction is slower and in the controls no reaction occurs.

    Being a potent neurotoxin, H2S induces photophobia, intolerance to noise, mitochondrial dysfunction by inhibition of cytochrome oxidase, and depresses the cellular immune system and induces neutropenia and low numbers of CD8+ lymphocytes.

    Its effects, at least in part explain the clinical condition of the severely disabled ME patients.

    Furthermore the effects of the bacterial H2S induces increased ROS production by the liver and retaining of heavy metals particularly mercury in the body.

    The latter is also neurotoxic, induces apoptosis, and interferes with the aerobic metabolism. Chronic increased production of H2S by intestinal bacteria leads to build-up of mercury in the body as proven by a Zn DTPA/DMPS challenge test."

    I think what we do about it is pretty much what many are working on with improving gut health etc. Improved diet, stool analysis for dysbiosis, probiotic and/or antibiotic treatments and metal detox. Many of us will need other things as well, it's hardly simple is it! Be interesting to see what your next test shows.
  9. RivkaRivka

    RivkaRivka Senior Member

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    anyone/everyone,

    did you do the H2S test? i just got my kit and can't do the test for 1-2 wks because i have to wait for the antibiotics to get out of my system. do you know if i am to put the unused kit in the fridge or freezer? the directions seem to state both and i can't figure out which.

    rivka
  10. Legolas

    Legolas

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    The first time i did the test it was positive, the second time it was negative....

    Didn't really know what to vote for in the poll :D
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Your results can change according to the bacteria in the gut. Did you do any treatments that could affect gut infections in between the tests?

    Sushi
  12. Legolas

    Legolas

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    I didn't take any prebiotics, probiotics, AB or antivirals. No changes in diet neither.
    There are several people with similar fluctuating results on the belgian/dutch forum.
  13. little_bird

    little_bird

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    I ordered two tests. Took the first and got a very strong positive. Went to my GP with the results and instructions sheet, and asked her for the types of antibiotics I felt I needed, based on the symptoms I had (based in turn on Dr. De Meirleirs' breakdown of the likely causes of certain specific symptoms), took the full course of antibiotics and then did another test. Results? Clear.

    It's a short-term solution - when I enter relapse my insides go badly wrong shortly after relapse begins, and the whole thing becomes a vicious spiral. However, I've found better solutions to the H2S problem than antibiotics since then (viz: lots of soluble and insoluble fibre in the diet and a daily huge dose of pro/prebiotics/live bacteria): also I deliberately try to increase the acid in my stomach when I eat by taking some vitamin C with food, to help food break down more efficiently before it hits the gut. My H2S symptoms are well under control, which means although my health is pretty poor, I have avoided relapse completely this year.

    Some of the antibiotics Dr. De Meirleir recommends are not available on the NHS in the UK. I explained the strains of bacteria I thought were the problem and my GP prescribed metronidazole and penicillin.
  14. little_bird

    little_bird

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    Hi Rich,

    I would like to confirm that in my case a relapse looks like this:

    > start feeling very ill
    > digestive system stops working
    > H2S level tests as high
    > complete collapse

    At no point during relapse can I tolerate Epsom Salt or Dead Sea Salt baths - they wipe me out completely.

    However, if I am not in relapse, I can tolerate them perfectly well.

    Thanks!
    R.
  15. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Guess I don't fit the norm. I tested postitive on this test (2) but epsom salts baths definitely help me. Huh? No idea except my experience.

    Sushi
  16. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Sushi.

    I've learned a little more about this, and have changed my hypothesis, thanks to reports from some people, like you, which did not support my original hypothesis.
    I've learned that H2S can be produced either from sulfate, by sulfate-reducing bacteria in the gut, or by other bacteria that are able to ferment sulfur-containing amino acids, such as cysteine or methionine. So in your case, I suspect that you don't have the sulfate reducers (in very large numbers, at least), but you do have others that can break down sulfur-containing amino acids. This, of course, would mean that your body is not getting the benefit from all of the sulfur-containing amino acids that are coming in from your diet. I'm not sure of the identity of all of the bacteria in this latter class. Thanks for the report.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  17. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Thanks for that input Rich.

    I did have an extremely high level of prevotella at the time the H2S test was done. Would this fit the bill?

    Sushi
  18. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    BINGO! See below:


    Oral Microbiol Immunol. 2009 Dec;24(6):485-92.

    Characterization of L-cysteine desulfhydrase from Prevotella intermedia.

    Yano T, Fukamachi H, Yamamoto M, Igarashi T.

    Department of Periodontology, Showa University School of Dentistry, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo, Japan.

    Abstract

    INTRODUCTION:

    Hydrogen sulfide is responsible for lysis of red blood cells and is a major compound for oral malodor. To clarify the production mechanism of hydrogen sulfide in Prevotella intermedia, we found an L-cysteine desulfhydrase gene (lcs) homologue on the genome database of P. intermedia ATCC25611 and characterized its gene product.

    METHODS:

    The lcs gene homologue cloned into pGEX6p-1 vector was expressed in Escherichia coli and purified. Lcs activity was assayed by detection of the reaction products (hydrogen sulfide and pyruvate) or its derivatives from L-cysteine. Site-directed mutagenesis was used to convert an amino acid of the Lcs molecule.

    RESULTS:

    The purified lcs gene product catalysed the degradation of L-cysteine to pyruvate, ammonia, and hydrogen sulfide, indicating that the protein is L-cysteine desulfhydrase. The enzyme required pyridoxal 5'-phosphate as a cofactor, and it was highly active at pH 7.0 and completely inhibited by ZnCl(2). The K(m) and V(max) of the enzyme were 0.7 mm and 4.2 micromol/min/mg, respectively. Replacement of Tyr-59, Tyr-118, Asp-198, and Lys-233 with any of the amino acids resulted in the complete disappearance of Lcs activity, implying that these amino acids are essential for enzyme activity. In addition, hydrogen sulfide produced by this enzyme lysed sheep red blood cells and modified hemoglobin.

    CONCLUSION:

    These results show the enzymatic properties of L-cysteine desulfhydrase from P. intermedia ATCC25611 and also suggest that the Lcs enzyme, which produces hydrogen sulfide from L-cysteine, is closely associated with the pathogenesis of P. intermedia.

    PMID:
    19832801


    Best regards,

    Rich
  19. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    So what is the treatment Rich.................?
  20. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, xks.

    It depends on the dysbiotic bacteria that are present. If you run a comprehensive stool test that includes antimicrobial sensitivity testing, you can find out which dysbiotic bacteria are present and which antibiotics or herbal antimicrobials
    will knock down their populations. In my opinion, if antibiotics are used, it is best to use one that is as narrow-spectrum as possible that will still knock down the population of the dysbiotic bacteria. I also think it is best to alternate treatment with antimicrobials with supplementation of probiotics, to build up the friendlies.

    Actually, if you want to do a complete job, it's best to look for parasites, also. If they are found, they should be treated first, because they can harbor bacteria. The Metametrix G.I. Function Profile (available from YourWaytoWellness.com)
    looks for parasites as well as H. pylori and other bacteria.

    Best regads,

    Rich

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