Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
Determined to paper the Internet with articles about ME, Jody Smith brings some additional focus to Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance on Aug. 8, 2017 ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

The Gut Microbiome and the Brain

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Jon_Tradicionali, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

    Messages:
    290
    Likes:
    322
    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    I have created this thread for the PWCFS I've noticed with scepticism or confusion towards hypothesis postulating intestinal bacteria as the psychophysiology of CFS.
    The ways bacteria can affect the brain is outlined in the study below:

    The Gut Microbiome and the Brain

    The human gut microbiome impacts human brain health in numerous ways: (1) Structural bacterial components such as lipopolysaccharides provide low-grade tonic stimulation of the innate immune system. Excessive stimulation due to bacterial dysbiosis, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, or increased intestinal permeability may produce systemic and/or central nervous system inflammation. (2) Bacterial proteins may cross-react with human antigens to stimulate dysfunctional responses of the adaptive immune system. (3) Bacterial enzymes may produce neurotoxic metabolites such as D-lactic acid and ammonia. Even beneficial metabolites such as short-chain fatty acids may exert neurotoxicity. (4) Gut microbes can produce hormones and neurotransmitters that are identical to those produced by humans. Bacterial receptors for these hormones influence microbial growth and virulence. (5) Gut bacteria directly stimulate afferent neurons of the enteric nervous system to send signals to the brain via the vagus nerve. Through these varied mechanisms, gut microbes shape the architecture of sleep and stress reactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. They influence memory, mood, and cognition and are clinically and therapeutically relevant to a range of disorders, including alcoholism, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and restless legs syndrome. Their role in multiple sclerosis and the neurologic manifestations of celiac disease is being studied. Nutritional tools for altering the gut microbiome therapeutically include changes in diet, probiotics, and prebiotics.

    http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2014.7000

    Something that took me by surprise was the microbiome's connection with the vagus nerve. This is something I'll be looking into further as its immensely interesting due to its connection with other theorists' hypothesis. Comments on this point are especially appreciated.
     
    Violeta, rosie26, Avengers26 and 5 others like this.
  2. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

    Messages:
    429
    Likes:
    190
    Hayden, Idaho
    I can see that taking place though. the vagus nerve is the main "gut" nerve, and so the microbes could undesirable affect transmissions of messages from nerve endings to the brain.
     
  3. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

    Messages:
    965
    Likes:
    777
    UK
    Do you think of intestinal bacteria as being the root cause, or just part of the subsequent process once the root cause has been put into effect?
     
    MeSci likes this.
  4. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

    Messages:
    290
    Likes:
    322
    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    I think it's a subsequent process. All the possibilities go through my mind every single day. It's a part time job hehe.

    The root cause candidates are many, how can we figure it out just by reading?

    I can only think of Trial and error.
     
    Gondwanaland, MeSci and cigana like this.
  5. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

    Messages:
    965
    Likes:
    777
    UK
    Part time job for a lot of us ;)

    I agree that it is very prevalent but IMO probably not the root cause. KDM told me that even when you replace all of a PWC's gut flora (by performing a fecal transplant), that although there are small improvements to begin with, those improvements are not maintained because the flora quickly modifies and reverts back to a disturbed state. In KDM's opinion this is because the underlying cause is immune dysfunction, and obviously it is principally the immune system that's keeping the microbiome in check.

    Re the trial and error, I think we can bias it in our favour if we prioritise research into immune dysfunction. Because it seems to me that immune dysfunction is
    (a) arguably present in every single PWC
    (b) present in the entire spectrum of disorders to which MECFS belongs (Autism, Lyme, Gulf war illness)
    (c) highly related to the treatments that have good success rates (Ampligen, rituximab, LDN).

    Other apsects of the disease don't seem to fullfill all of those requirements so well.
     
    natasa778 and Gondwanaland like this.
  6. cfsStevew

    cfsStevew

    Messages:
    72
    Likes:
    140
    its really fascinating the role of gut bacteria and its ability to stimulate efferent nerves...its difficult to know which aspects are playing more or a role - but I suspect point 1 is a issue in a lot of cases...I got this impression from talking to several patients about their reactivity to food due to gut permeability and their immune system reacting, which improved as they recovered...
     
    natasa778 likes this.
  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,951
    Likes:
    12,748
    Cornwall, UK
    Gut dysbiosis is also prevalent in autism - don't know about the other illnesses but worth checking out.
     
  8. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes:
    664
    Austria
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150108125953.htm
    Could gut microbes help treat brain disorders? Mounting research tightens their connection with the brain
     
    green_monster likes this.
  9. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes:
    664
    Austria
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141119142205.htm

    Gut microbiota influences blood-brain barrier permeability
     
    Gondwanaland and Sidereal like this.
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,847
    Likes:
    11,067
    Isn't it mainly the other way around? That microflora regulates the immune system.

    That improvements don't last could be due to diet. For example, if not enough prebiotics are supplied in the diet, then the positive changes won't last, as the beneficial bacteria will be gone.
     
    MeSci and jepps like this.
  11. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes:
    664
    Austria
    Yes, and as the mucosa consists mainly of glucose, we must feed the mucosa to with glucose, that does not inflame the mucosa, but only heal it. This could be bone broth and healthy starches.
     
    Gondwanaland and adreno like this.
  12. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,951
    Likes:
    12,748
    Cornwall, UK
    Mucosa consist mainly of glucose? Do you have a link for this? Why should it be fed with glucose?
     
  13. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

    Messages:
    496
    Likes:
    664
    Austria
    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/disease/carbohydrate-deficiency/

     
    Little Bluestem and Gondwanaland like this.
  14. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,951
    Likes:
    12,748
    Cornwall, UK
    That page is about zero-carb diets. I don't think people here are generally on those, and many of us are actually much better on low-sugar/low-grain diets, with a good intake of veg and small amount of fruit. I am one of these.

    I think there is a lot of difference between pure/free glucose and glycoproteins, which are widespread in the body. Binding and polymerisation can transform substances into completely different materials. For example, ethylene is a gas, whereas polyethylene is what we know as polythene. It's a polymer of ethylene.
     
    Avengers26 and jepps like this.
  15. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes:
    615
    United States, New Hampshire
    Although this is only anecdotal. I have noticed a substantial decrease in anxiety and depression since I started an aggressive gut protocol about 2-3 months ago. It's seems very clear to me that there is a definite gut microbiome- brain connection.

    My energy is also way up and my clarity of mind is noticeably better. I have been taking DGL, aloe vera, glutamine, n-acetyl-glucosamine, zinc carnosine, and inulin.

    I have also been on a low carb diet for about a year, as well as taking oil of oregano and berberine for dysbiosis. It feels like a lot of hard work is finally paying off! Jim
     
  16. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

    Messages:
    965
    Likes:
    777
    UK
    Sure gut flora regulates the immune system, but that doesn't mean immune dysfunction is always a result of gut flora. Take HIV for example.
     
    MeSci and August59 like this.
  17. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,847
    Likes:
    11,067
    True. And I believe there are several causes for ME/CFS (i.e., subsets) as well.
     
    MeSci and August59 like this.
  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,951
    Likes:
    12,748
    Cornwall, UK
    What's DGL?

    Energy is the one thing that I haven't been able to improve, but my fat loss and muscle gain has given me more strength, except when I have that frustrating weakness as part of PEM and just have to wait for it to pass. I wonder whether it's a specific component of your supplement regime that has increased your energy.

    I tend to think that my energy won't increase until I have fixed whatever is impairing the use of oxygen by mitochondria.
     
  19. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

    Messages:
    290
    Likes:
    322
    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    Study linking altered microbiome as a consequence of depression induced HPA deregulation.

    "Conclusions & Inferences
    The induction of chronic depression alters motor activity and the microbial profile in the colon likely via activation of the HPA. These findings provide a basis for linking the behavioral and gastrointestinal manifestations of IBS."

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=AE0EC25D7E65A1269D3E17C37ED7BA68.f04t01
     
  20. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,951
    Likes:
    12,748
    Cornwall, UK
    That is about an animal model of "depression-like behavior in mice" who "demonstrated chronic depression- and anxiety-like behaviors." The 'model' was created via bilateral olfactory bulbectomy. The olfactory bulb is described here.

    Knowing what I do about the irrelevance of animal 'models', this one seems particularly far-fetched.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page