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The Gut Microbiome and the Brain - Galland

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Bob, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. Bob

    Bob

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    I'm placing this in the ME/CFS research section because it specifically refers to chronic fatigue syndrome & fibromyalgia in the abstract.

    The Gut Microbiome and the Brain
    Galland L.
    J Med Food. 2014 Nov 17. [Epub ahead of print]
    doi:10.1089/jmf.2014.7000
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25402818
    http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/jmf.2014.7000

     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
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  2. Simon

    Simon

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    Probably worth noting that the author, Leo Galland, runs the Foundation for Integrated Medicine
    So it sounds like a really interesting review and discusses a lot of stuff I've come across elsewhere, but I'm always a bit suspicious when someone writes books like Power Healing: Use the New Integrated Medicine to Cure Yourself
     
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  3. dan062

    dan062 Senior Member

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    " Gut bacteria directly stimulate afferent neurons of the enteric nervous system to send signals to the brain via the vagus nerve. Through these varied mechanisms, gut microbes shape the architecture of sleep and stress reactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. They influence memory, mood, and cognition and are clinically and therapeutically relevant to a range of disorders, including alcoholism, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and restless legs syndrome."

    This is fascinating.

    Am I correct in saying that trying to identify exactly the dysbiotic state that is proposed to drive this in CFS/ME is the rationale for Lipkin's study?

    And that if the hypothesis is correct (dysbiosis directly triggering vagal inflammation --> CNS inflammation) that it represents a subtle but importance difference to Van Elzakker's theory which proposes direct infection of the vagal tissue by a pathogen? (Or CNS infection, depending on your understanding).

    Anyone know the source for the first idea in the quote (that dysbiosis can have a direct inflammatory effect on the vagal nerve?)
     
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  4. Bob

    Bob

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    I'm not sure if Lipkin would necessarily subscribe to everything in this review paper, including the vagal nerve inflammation theory, but, yes, Lipkin is looking for anything unusual in the gut, in terms of microbial populations, and individual microbes. He also intends to look for immune reactions (i.e. antibodies and cytokine patterns) that might correlate to any unusual gut microbe populations in individual patients. And in related research he's carrying out metabolomic and proteomic studies to look for further abnormalities.

    So, I think it's correct to say that Lipkin is "trying to identify exactly the dysbiotic state that is proposed to drive this in CFS/ME." To my understanding, he's not chasing the vagal nerve theory specifically, or at least he's never mentioned it as far as I'm aware.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
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  5. Bob

    Bob

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    It does seem that way, doesn't it. Galland is talking about gut microbe metabolites interfering with the nervous system (including stimulation of the vagal nerve), rather than direct infection of the nervous system.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
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  6. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Right, sending signals through the vagus nerve is different from intrinsic inflammation/infection of the nerve.
     
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  7. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

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    One is looking for the presence of poor or certain bacteria in the gut. Maybe they must look at the absence of certain bacteria in the gut!
     
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  8. Bob

    Bob

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    Good point. Research needs to look to see if there is an altered or unusual gut microbiome, including if there is an absence of, or low levels of, certain bacteria.

    Or it could perhaps even be the case that the gut microbiome is normal in ME patients but the immune system mounts an unusual immune response to certain gut microbes.

    I wonder if perhaps the immune system in ME patients is mounting an unusual immune response to certain gut bacteria, whereby ME patients might have high levels of antibodies to certain gut bacteria, and lower levels of those bacteriain the gut compared to healthy controls. (i.e. there is an unusual hyperactive immune response to certain gut bacteria that don't usually provide a strong immune response.)

    Alternatively, perhaps gut microbes are escaping into the blood of ME patients via a leaky gut, but the body isn't successfully dealing with those microbes perhaps because we've evolved not to mount an excessive immune response to symbiotic gut bacteria. And there are no unusually high levels of antibodies to those bacteria, despite a leaky gut, because the immune system has not mounted a successful immune response.

    Our perhaps a leaky gut is causing an appropriate massive immune response, to the leaky gut, in ME patients, but the body is simply unable to deal with the problem or heal the gut, so the immune response persists.

    So many possibilities.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
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  9. dan062

    dan062 Senior Member

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    I think there's a very big difference, with pretty profound implications, as Van Elzakker has been saying that directly treating an infection of the vagus would be extremely difficult at present (hence if the hypothesis is correct his suggestion, treatment wise, is focusing on suppressing the microglial response).
     
  10. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    If it's been overlooked some of you might be interested in the thread, 'Resistant Starch Challenge: Is it the Key We've been looking for?' A few here have already benefitted by taking certain prebiotics to modify the gut.
     
  11. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    A gut microbiome researcher recently commented about the whole field changing at the moment, moving away from looking at exact composition of bacteria - as in what individual bacteria are there and what is 'missing' -- and moving towards looking at the effects of each microbiome almost as a living entity (think Gaia Earth). The diversity of each person's microbiome, your ecosystem, and how it is affecting, and is affected by (or controlled by), other body systems being what is important. It is becoming increasingly hard to get/justify funding for looking at individual bacterial absence/presence/levels as they now reckon it cannot tell us very much. One reason being that there are such huge differences in gut microbiome composition between individuals, even perfecly health ones, that it is almost impossible to classify a 'healthy' microbiome.

    Metabolomics is predicted to bring more useful answers, and is thankfully becoming faster and more affordable. Then of course there is the whole universe of issues related to (misdirected?) immune responses, intestinal permeability (endotoxins in the blood?), enteric/vagal hypersensitivity etc.

    I totally agree with the rest of your post :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
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  12. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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