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The GURU is INSIDE YOU

Discussion in 'Spirituality and ME/CFS' started by Dreambirdie, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    KUMARE. This is a fantastic film about an Indian guy from New Jersey, who impersonates a guru, creates his own religion, and gathers together a group of followers, ultimately proving (to himself and them) that THE GURU IS INSIDE YOU.


     
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  2. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    caledonia Thanks for reminding me to watch this film.

    I live in an area that is overflowing with spiritual teachers of all kinds. When I was younger I explored this realm and was peripherally involved in several spiritual groups. None of my experiences were good ones, several were definitely BAD. What grabbed me the most was how grown adults (many of whom were well educated successful professionals), could give up their power completely and choose to project that power onto a given guru/teacher, who then became their spiritual parent and "boss." It was a strange phenomenon to observe.

    One guru I knew, a British guy with aristocratic roots, who was a New Age author and sort of wannabe Sufi, would make all his followers wash the walls with rose water, if ever anyone had a negative thought. The house these people shared with the Sufi guru was a large Victorian with many rooms. His followers would fill buckets with rose water and proceed to wash every wall in that house from ceiling to floor, until all the bad thoughts were cleared out. The irony is that this guy had a rather nasty temper, and was prone to throw angry fits, sometimes for rather trivial things. The followers excused his bad behavior as "a changing of the octave," and I never saw any wall washing after that. One time, there was a bizarre coincidental occurrence during one of his tantrums, when a window in the livingroom shattered. The followers were a bit awestruck, by this supposed demonstration of his power.

    There's many other stories I could tell about my experiences in New Age guru land. Some were worse than the above. The overriding impression that I was left with was all about projection of the guru inside onto someone, usually a charismatic parental figure, "out there." This is why I loved the KUMARE film. It really captured that message and did so in a very sweet non-cynical way.

    leela and Sushi I think you might enjoy this as well.
     
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  3. golden

    golden Senior Member

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  4. LaurelW

    LaurelW Senior Member

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    What a fascinating movie, Dreambirdie. It would seem that he helped his followers in spite of being a fake. He was a really good listener and empathizer.
    This movie also puts a fine point on how much we give credence to foreigners. Slap a British accent on somebody and I can guarantee people will pay more attention.
     
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  5. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    LaurelW It really was well done. It gave me a lot to think about.

    When I'm really ill, it's easy to fall into the illusion that someone outside of myself knows better than I do what I need, whether this be a doctor, an alternative practitioner, a friend on FB or PR, or even a book. When my thinking gets fuzzy and distorted from viruses and toxins, I begin to distrust my own judgement and second guess myself. I have gotten into a hell of a lot of trouble by doing this. I agreed to some very bad medical advice back in 2009, and am still paying the price for that. At this point, I won't take any advice from anyone new during the times I am sickest. I can't afford any more medical errors.
     
  6. Nielk

    Nielk

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    It's funny that you mention this trailer because I watched the full documentary just two weeks ago. It was very well done and it shows how easily the masses get influenced. There are so many naive people out there searching (thirsting) for some meaning and spirituality in their life. It is scary to see how easy it is to manipulate and influence people. This explains the pull for many to different cults.
     
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  7. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Its not just "the masses" of naive people who are drawn into these kind of spiritual groups. There are MANY intelligent, well-educated professionals who get involved in groups like this. It's shocking what lengths they will go to to fit in to the group, to please their teacher and get his approval.

    Back in 2009, James Ray, one of the authors of a best selling New Age book called THE SECRET was on trial for manslaughter in the death of three people who attended an expensive ($10,000/head) Spiritual Warrior retreat. There was a sweat lodge ceremony on the last day that was so hot that 3 people actually died from the heat in the lodge and several others were made very ill.

    I watched the trial and was amazed to see a nurse and an orthodontist who took the stand as witnesses. Obviously they KNEW, (they were educated health professionals!) that people were getting ill from the heat in the sweat lodge, and that this could be dangerous. But they (and everyone else in that lodge) were too intimidated by this New Age guru to speak up and say "WE NEED TO GET OUT OF HERE!"

    What is it that makes people SURRENDER and OBEY someone like this? That's the question that I asked myself when I flirted around in groups of this sort back in my mid and late 20s. I suspect it has something to do with prior abuse in childhood, along with shame, fear of punishment and fear of rejection. Many people I met in spiritual groups were looking for a ready made family to replace the one they grew up in, which was usually not so ideal.

    Everybody wants to feel like they belong somewhere, and there is nothing wrong with that. But when someone stops paying attention and questioning exactly what they are belonging to, then that's when the abuses take place.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...guru-james-arthur-ray-s-homicide-verdict.html
     
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  8. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I've found I am my most vunerable when I am at my weakest point or my strongest point. Either too unwell to think through things properly or too over confident and act impulsively without thinking things through.

    So I try to keep away from people who are too strong and pushy or try to push their ideas on me too zealously.
     
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  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Being conditioned to submit to authority figures begins in childhood. its what society breeds from. Society hates The Independent.

    In adulthood the programme remains. Positivity is a much abused tool to control people with. Its tricky to see sometimes the wrotten food in the package labelled 'fresh' especially these days with all the chemical colours and additives.

    I think the phrase is 'a wolf in sheeps clothing'.


    Did anyone like The Fountain. I thought it was great :) it got bad reviews.
     
  10. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    This is why Judaism teaches (commands, actually) never to bow down to anybody or anything. As humans, it's almost a part of our nature to want to make idols and gurus to worship, including "jesus." I wouldn't go so far as to say we're all our own guru, as we're all basically clueless, but we're all equally human, at least. :p
     
  11. Nielk

    Nielk

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    Certain inborn traits are positive and help us maintain a moral society such as; the desire to please, wanting to conform and respecting authority. It is when these human qualities are abused by corrupted individuals that society falls apart. At its extreme, like Dreambirdie mentioned above, people will die.
     
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  12. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Corrupted Systems, corrupted society.

    Individuals are forced to conform to.

    Rotten from the top down.
     
  13. Nielk

    Nielk

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  14. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I don't know much about Judaism, but I do know there are lots of rules and commandments, and I wonder how those affect and maybe interfere with one's own intuition. Isn't a set of rules something that you have to obey and "bow down to?" If that is the case, then how do you develop trust in your own inner guidance?

    I equate being one's own "guru" with that sense of inner guidance and intuition. There are some things we just "know" to be true for ourselves. There are people we have a bad or good feeling about. There are places we walk into, and a little voice inside of us tells us we need to get out of there fast! There are supplements or medications that we know we SHOULD NOT take, even though other people are having great results with them. All of this is the "inner guru" at work. Or maybe for some it's the inner rabbi or inner angel. Whatever you want to call that voice, it's our intuitive self. When it gets projected outward and attached to some external figure, who then displaces that inner voice and diminishes its inner guidance, then that's where the danger arises.
     
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  15. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    I don't disagree in kind, but the sad fact is that our "inner intuition" can often lead us astray. Most of the people in that video seemed to believe they were following their own inner guidance in believing the "guru" was genuine, for example. Feelings are sometimes wrong, hunches sometimes lead us astray, and voices inside ourselves are not always from the part of us that's not been conditioned by language and society or culture. It can help to have a set of tried and true guidelines that, paired with right intention, will seldom lead one astray.
     
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  16. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Interesting perspective. I see what you mean, but I can't agree with your assessment that most of the people in the video were following their own inner guidance. I think what was driving most (if not all) of them, especially initially, was a desperation for answers to their life problems. That kind of desperate yearning (minus any reasonable questioning) will definitely muddy the water of intuition.

    I agree that feelings and hunches can lead us astray at times, but that's why it's good to know oneself well enough to have an idea just WHERE a particular hunch is coming from. If that hunch is contaminated by one's familial or cultural programming, (particularly if there are abuse issues and trauma in one's past), then yes, there could be a problem with the intuitive navigation system. Usually that manifests as a driven or desperate feeling, or in it's most extreme form as an addiction, where we feel we "HAVE TO" do this or that in order to feel okay. That's not the kind of hunch that is good to follow, because it's driven more by psychopathology than by real intuition, which doesn't have a desperate edge to it.

    Also, there is probably some people who have a better attunement to their intuitive self. Having studied Jungian psychology and taken the MBIT many times, I know that I am an INFJ, with intuition being my dominant function. So in my case, as with most intuitive types, trusting that inner voice is essential to feeling fully myself. Maybe that's why it's easier for me to trust my intuition, than it would be for someone who is a sensation type. Whenever I don't, I'm usually screwed. When I do, I find that my life works much better for me.
     
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  17. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Exactly! That's what I meant in regard to the folks in the vid. Sometimes what *isn't* our intuition b/c it's clouded by various factors can feel remarkably similar to our genuine intuition. ;-)

    Well, my intuition tells me it's time to watch that movie. BBL :D
     
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  18. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I've placed guidelines down in my life, thinking right I won't fall into that trap again and 10 years down the road I go and fall into it again!!

    I think given the right circumstances, the right pressure anyone can fall. Some people can cope with lots of pressure and others very little. A strong person in a weak moment can stuff up badly, make a bad choice, decision.
     
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  19. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    I just watched it, thought it was great. Really shows how badly most of us, at one point or another, are looking for something, which is not a surprise in a culture that gives us so little of real value (imho).

    I have such an immediate and aversive reaction to "gurus" of any kind. This thread reminded me of a time I was at a Zen center, hearing about how zen really isn't incompatible with other religions (meaning christianity, I guess, trying not to scare off the christians, lol). When it came time to bow to the "roshi," I couldn't do it, because it violated my beliefs mentioned above, so I just stood there while everyone bowed (gassho). I then heard all the well-meaning "teachings" (indoctrination) about how I shouldn't be too egotistical or proud to bow, that it didn't really mean anything, that it was just a gesture of "respect," etc. (but no respect for my beliefs, apparently :rolleyes:) They were so offended at my continued refusal - I might be the only person in the history of the place to get harsh, glaring looks from the zen master, lol - who has the ego now??

    (For the record, I don't want anyone bowing to me, either. :p )

    Great movie, though, thanks for mentioning it. : -)
     
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  20. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I know what you mean. In my case, I didn't fall for the gurus as much as I did for the bad "medical advice," and that included some pretty far out and bizarre "remedies." Before I knew what was wrong with me (way back in the late 70s and early 80s, before doctors had figured out what an immune system was :rolleyes:) I experimented with practitioners and healers of every ilk imaginable. Most of them were harmless, but not free, and definitely worthless as far as effectiveness goes. The worst advice, though, by far the most destructive, was that of the MDs. They are a cult onto themselves. But that's a whole other story.
     

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