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The Guardian: 'A misuse of scarce funds': NHS to end prescription of homeopathic remedies

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by AndyPR, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. AndyPR

    AndyPR Senior Member

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...s-to-end-prescription-of-homeopathic-remedies

    I've not read any further than the linked article, but it makes me wonder if a case could be made against the NHS funding CBT & GET, due to both effectiveness and cost-effectiveness?
     
  2. Barry53

    Barry53 Senior Member

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    If only NICE could see how well this comment maps onto ME treatments...
     
  3. Karen Kirke

    Karen Kirke

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    Patient surveys suggest that patients find homeopathy more helpful than GET, and a lot less harmful:

    ME Association 2010 (UK):
    30% of 1100 patients reported improved symptoms after homeopathy
    and 10% that homeopathy made them worse,
    compared to 22% of 906 reporting improved symptoms after GET
    and 57% that GET made them worse.
    http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/2010-survey-report-lo-res10.pdf

    Action for ME 2014 (UK):
    47% reported homeopathy helpful
    and 10% that homeopathy made them worse,
    compared to 35% reporting GET helpful
    and 47% that GET made them worse.
    https://www.actionforme.org.uk/uploads/pdfs/me-time-to-deliver-survey-report.pdf

    Homeopathy also outperformed CBT in MEA 2010 but was just pipped by CBT in Action for ME 2014.

    Norway's survey by Bringsli et al is in line with the MEA 2010 results above, with homeopathy helping more and harming less than GET and CBT. http://www.me-foreningen.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ME-Nat-Norwegian-Survey-Abr-Eng-Ver.pdf
     
    Valentijn, JohnM, ScottTriGuy and 3 others like this.
  4. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    What does that say?

    I am surprised by this, is it placebo in action?

    If GET is worse than homeopathy / placebo is that evidence that it really does cause Ill effects?
     
  5. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Well sugar pills are preferable to forced exercise.
     
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  6. Karen Kirke

    Karen Kirke

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    I think context is important: homeopathy still ranks very low on the list of therapies that patients report as helping them/improving their symptoms in surveys, 19th of 25 in MEA 2010 and 18th of 20 in Action for ME 2014. Much, much higher proportions of patients report things like pacing as helpful: 70-85%. And I think we have to be realistic: pacing ranks 1st or 2nd for helping/improving but we would expect a future treatment that targets the disease mechanism to result in much greater change than pacing does. So in a long list of things that don't help us very much, there may be little point in splitting hairs between those at the very end, but if surveys consistently find homeopathy more helpful than GET, then that's somewhat interesting, because of its consistency.

    There's a question!
     
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  7. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    ME patients are susceptible to placebo effects like any other person, what's the surprise?
     
  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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  9. Research 1st

    Research 1st Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.

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    Lets think about how unexpected responses to us seasoned veterans come from who we presume are ME patients like us, yet (to us) bizarrely respond to placebo or what makes us worse helpful.

    No test = havoc:

    1) No one is 100% confirmed to have ME or CFS - no test.
    2) Mental illness is not excluded, no test.
    3) Misdiagnosis is not excluded - no test.

    2 + 3 are now 'us'...... faux us, now join a support charity and start filling in questionnaires.

    4)To join, you don't need to prove your have an official diagnosis. Anyone can join as a 'patient'. This wrecks the accuracy of any feedback from patient charities for therapy A,B,C,

    Consequently polls are filled in, and wacky results come back. Some hate CBT, some love it, some are indifferent. We don't know who these people are, their medical history, they just claim to have ME and could be lobbyists for all we know.

    No way in stopping this until Science advances, which it is thankfully, just not at NIH/CDC,
     
  10. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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    I don't know how comprehensive the list was but quite a lot of people also think of alternative therapies, taking supplements etc as being part and parcel of homeopathy. And similarly, people might have also been taking supplements as well as homeopathic treatments but thought improvements were down to the latter.
     
  11. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    The surprise was the figures quoted, but @Karen Kirke explained the background very well.
     
  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    And a lot don't know the difference between homeopathy and naturopathy. Naturopathic products are generally labeled and grouped under "homeopathy" in the Netherlands. There might be a lot of people who think it's just alternative medicine.
     
    arewenearlythereyet, Hutan and BurnA like this.
  13. Kina

    Kina

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    Please note, a number of posts have been removed from this thread as they were either off-topic or responding to an off-topic post.

    Thank you.
     

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