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The Fable known as The PACE Trial

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Phoenix Rising Team, May 1, 2014.

  1. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    You would be playing well under par, to use the golf parlance. I have trouble remembering this morning. Last week? There had to be one, reason tells me so. Last year? Just the facts and a few flashes of memory.

    Thank you to everyone involved. I am happy to see song and sarcasm being used more. Our technical responses reach out to those who are very interested, and can be read by professionals in the field, but to reach the wider public and wider patient groups we need more easily accessible stuff.
     
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  2. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    Well done all! The song and chorus is surprisingly catchy. Cheeky visual aids too: stretching the truth, pulling a rabbit out of a hat (magic trick), a flying pig for every chorus, fake as a 3 dollar bill, and the smell of rubbish.

    Every one of those themes applies to so-called "recovery" in the PACE Trial.

    To anyone still into reasonable critique of the PACE trial, keep up the good work.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
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  3. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Graham,

    I checked the SF-36 website today and it indicated that 50 not 100 is the average score in version2. Which version was used in the trial and what is considred normal outside of pace for that version?

    Leo
     
  4. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

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    There is a recommendation to normalise the scores with country specific distributions. So that the mean becomes 50. But the PACE trial didn't do this.

    Personally I think the normalisation is a little dodgy because the mean and standard deviation don't make sense given the shape of the distribution. I think they should also quote medians and percentiles.
     
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  5. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Clear Light
    thanks for a little taster of the song - it sounds great. Unfortunately i cant access it on my technology :( so it was nice to have a little glimse until i can :)
     
  6. Graham

    Graham Senior Moment

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    Yes, User9876 is right. The distribution of scores for healthy people is so heavily clumped at the top end, with a slight tail downwards, that trying to pretend it can be manipulated to form a Normal Distribution, with a mean of 50, is ridiculous. Remember that the scores jump in units of 5, so really from 85 to 100 is only 4 marks.

    The marks in IQ tests are manipulated to have a mean of 100 and, I think, a standard deviation of 25, but that is reasonable because there is a wide range of scores, equally balanced around the mid-point. For healthy folk, the mid-point of the sf-36 would be 100, so it isn't possible to have scores balanced on either side. It would be as inappropriate to use data for the whole population, including those with poor health, as it would to put together the heights of males of any age to determine a distribution for male heights.

    Non-statisticians could argue that it didn't matter: that it was simply a matter of rescaling it to get an average of 50, but they are wrong. The term "normalise" implies that a Normal Distribution is being scaled up or down, and the whole point is to use it for comparison with other scales, but you can't compare scales which have different shapes.

    I'm guessing they are using the same technique as they do in some areas of education, to "normalise" to a mean of 50 and a standard deviation of 21. If we do that for skewed data such as individual income, UK 2008/9, then we get a mean of 50, but half the population score under 44, a quarter score under 39, and those who don't earn anything at all score 31. In contrast, those on £100,000 would get a score of 102.
     
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  7. Graham

    Graham Senior Moment

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    Hi Golden. If you send me a PM with an email address, I could send you the song alone, together with a couple of screen grabs.
     
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  8. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Ah thanks very much graham :) :) :)

    But what it is, is that i am on pay as you go. And i no longer get unlimited mb. But only 2,000 a month i think it is (cant remember) - but if i watch youtube after a video or two i run out and am then disconnected for the month.

    What i really need to do is find a new psy as you go deal which allows me to have unlimited data again - its on my list. I have no landline - only mobile so its a nuisance :)
     
  9. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    @golden, Pr. Wessely could probably help you with a "psy as you go" plan. :eek::nerd::p
     
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  10. Graham

    Graham Senior Moment

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    Ah, the joys of pay as you go. We used to have them dotted around most town centres in the old days: one old penny for admittance into the gents' or ladies' conveniences. There wasn't a download limit in those days though: good job too sometimes.

    Wessely and Co would not be able to GET anything useful for us though.
     
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  11. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Ha ha so long as he did it Gangnam style - i would take him up on that. :)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
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  12. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    I did find it odd that the normal score was not 100 as it clearly should be.
     
  13. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Understood, Graham. Was version 6 of SF-36 used?

    I would add that if you starting messing around in that way, then you would also have to normalise for age since 100 and a 10 year old have very different activity levels.
     
  14. Graham

    Graham Senior Moment

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    Glad it made sense to someone. According to the protocol they used version 5.0 (01.02.2006)

    They did use the Borg scale though. For fans of Star Trek, that could explain a lot.
     
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  15. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    So you were the dreaded phantom toilet filler of old London town?

    Well that explains a lot. :p
     
  16. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Why do brain washed collectives seem to appropriate ;-)
     

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