1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Can You Come for a Visit? My ME/CFS Says No
My daughter and son-in-law just had a baby last week. We are thrilled. But we won't be able to see the baby or hold her any time soon. We won't be able to take over little gifts or help out with housework or babysitting.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

The Electrical Apocalypse: Can we avoid it?

Discussion in 'Hypersensitivity and Intolerance' started by Womble, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,264
    Likes:
    3,154
    Are you actually able to tell whether these devices are on or off, in a blinded experiment where you have no other way of knowing if the device is switched on or off (ie, when the device on/off indicator lights are hidden)?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Womble

    Womble

    Messages:
    90
    Likes:
    25
    I've never done any such experiment.

    My body is in a lot of pain and discomfort a lot of the time, and in certain environments I can't always pinpoint every single thing in that environment that might be bothering me and making it worse. If I am having a "good day", I might not feel certain stressors in the environment because my cells are resisting oxidative stress at that particular time.

    I've also admitted that psychological factors can add to the stress and pain, and can make it harder sometimes to figure that out.

    If someone takes out their cell phone and makes a call within a few feet of me, I can always feel the heat of the radiation and the pain. I can definitely feel these devices up close, and I have no doubt of this.

    The bottom line is I've had over 15 years of experience with EMF sensitivity, and my reaction is so severe that it could make me homeless if I was exposed to such devices for a prolonged period of time.

    When you already have a syndrome that involves fatigue, vomiting, diarrhea, external tremors, pain, insomnia, frequent urination, rash, and other flu-like symptoms, the last thing you want is to be exposed to something that makes it all worse.

    Whether you or scientists believe me is completely irrelevant to me, but it might make an interesting experiment. Eventually, I hope they can measure the radiation and its effect on bodily tissues to prove it scientifically that these devices are harmful.

    My real hope is to find solutions to these problems for myself, that is why I posted this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    melamine likes this.
  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,387
    Likes:
    5,903
    I don't know much about this, but it does also sound that there are lots of potential confounding factors here. Things like flashing lights, screens, noises etc can trigger people's migraines, and these things could lead one to associating migraine-type symptoms with EMF stuff.

    It does seem that, of the group of people who feel that they respond badly to EMF, blinded studies do not show a significant difference in symptoms depending upon whether they are really exposed to EMFs or just encouraged to believe that they had been. It could still be that there's some small sub-group who do respond badly to EMFs, or that people's responses are not short term in the way that they believe that they are, but it also looks as if things are more complicated than some believe, and that it could be that the EMF thing is just a red herring.

    (I've just been getting frustrated with the limited range of our wireless broadband.... I want more EMFs coursing through me!)

    Best of luck to everyone with finding the true cause of their ill health.
     
  4. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes:
    1,401
    NZ
    I wonder with all the outrageous sensitivities that ME can throw up, it wouldn't surprise me if there are some ME sufferers who are horribly affected by EMF. I know my noise sensitivities have been tortuous to me over the years.
     
  5. golden

    golden Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes:
    1,076
    Clear Light
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,264
    Likes:
    3,154
    The interesting thing about WiFi is that, if I am not mistaken, the maximum legal power output of Internet routers and WiFi devices in the USA is set at 1000 milliWatts (=1 Watt), whereas in Europe, the maximum legal power is 100 milliWatts — which is10 times less.

    Since WiFi is one of the strongest sources of electromagnetic waves in your house, the fact that the US has a WiFi which is 10 times more powerful would I guess mean that WiFi electrosensitivity should be more prevalence or more severe in the US, in relation to Europe (assuming WiFi electrosensitivity does exist).
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  7. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes:
    1,401
    NZ
    Golden :) :) xx
     
    golden likes this.
  8. golden

    golden Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes:
    1,076
    Clear Light
  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes:
    1,076
    Clear Light
    :) xx Bless you
     
    rosie26 likes this.
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,264
    Likes:
    3,154
    I think even for your own sake, and for your own personal knowledge about the causes of your symptoms, it could be fruitful to perform testing.

    It would lead to more knowledge about your own symptoms, and this knowledge may be valuable in terms of trying ameliorate your symptoms.

    I can think of a very simple way to blind test this (assuming you are interested in doing so), which is as follows: you could set up a mobile phone such that it automatically answers incoming phone calls without ringing (many cellular phones have this option to auto-answer calls), and with the headset volume turned down to zero (so that you cannot know when a incoming call is received).

    You can put the phone in you pocket, carrying it with you all day, and then ask a friend to telephone your mobile at three random times throughout the day, letting each call last say 5 minutes (but not talking, just holding the line open). That way, you would be exposed to three 5 minute bursts of cellular microwave radiation at random times during the day.

    Now, you then need to keep a record of any times during the day when you felt your symptoms flair up. Then at the end of the day, you can compare the times of your symptom flairs with the times that these calls to your phone were made (the times will be in the phone's call log). If the times tally, you have proven to yourself that your symptoms are indeed triggered by mobile phone radiation. If they do not tally, then you may need to consider whether in fact you are not particularly microwave sensitive.

    If you are truly electrosensitive to microwaves and other radio waves, then you can buy clothing which is largely impermeable to such waves (see here and here). But since this clothing is expensive, you'd probably want to make sure you are sensitive before investing in such garments.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    Valentijn likes this.
  11. Womble

    Womble

    Messages:
    90
    Likes:
    25
    You have the right to be skeptical and you have the right to your own opinions.

    I also feel you have distracted my thread a little bit, maybe without intending to.

    This thread was not a debate about whether EMF sensitivity is real. For those of us who suffer from this and have become homeless because of a wireless devices, this is actually an irrelevant debate.

    You can definitely start a productive thread questioning the existence of EMF sensitivity, its an interesting debate and a different topic.

    I have no need to do the experiments you are suggesting, I've done them all already. I KNOW I suffer from this, I have the same exact reaction to these devices for 15 years whenever in proximity. I've tried all sorts of variations of testing this for a very long time (short of enrolling in a double-blind study).

    Science is about what is repeatable. If every single time you eat chocolate you get a skin rash, maybe you are allergic?


    This thread was to find solutions.

    Thanks for the suggestion of EMF-resistant clothing, I appreciate that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    melamine likes this.
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,264
    Likes:
    3,154
    I am not skeptical, I am truth oriented — ie, I want to get at the truth of the matter, which is a different thing.

    And much of my discussion is not on whether EMF sensitivity is real, but instead provided suggestions on how to reliably test whether a given individual may have EMF sensitivity.

    So if you are sure, cut to the chase, and buy the electrically shielding clothing that I provided links to above.

    Or go one better, and set up a complete Faraday cage using this electrically shielding cloth, like this woman here. A cloth Faraday cage is a very effective way of cutting out pretty much all EMF.

    You can also consider using electrically shielding wall paint, to turn an entire room into a large Faraday cage, which will be EMF free inside (though for this to work, you'd also need to use electrically shielding cloth as lace curtains on the windows).

    I have a background in physics, so if you have any queries about such shielding materials, I will try my best to help.

    Solution found.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  13. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,041
    Likes:
    1,713
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    @IreneF I thought it was the earth's magnetic field that was going to reverse?
     
  14. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,041
    Likes:
    1,713
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    @AbbyDear This is one reason I'm sort of looking forward to the "Zombie Apocalypse" when the grid goes down and we're sent back to horse and buggy days.
     
  15. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,041
    Likes:
    1,713
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I don't have any actual evidence, it's more of a hypothesis created by Rich Van Konynenburg. It looks like you're new here, so you're probably not familiar with methylation, Rich and so forth. Rich was an ME/CFS researcher, who came up with the link between autism and ME/CFS, i.e. poor methylation which causes low glutathione, which causes the symptoms of ME/CFS. Unfortunately, he passed away about a year ago. We sure miss him around here.

    I have all the best resources about this linked in my signature. To get started, watch my Methylation Made Easy video series.

    Yasko's remyelination info is here: http://www.dramyyasko.com/resources/autism-pathways-to-recovery/chapter-8/
    Note that it's the last step in her protocol. This means you have to lay a lot of ground work before doing this step will be successful.

    If we knew of some people who improved from EMF sensitivity, then we could analyze what they have in common, and maybe that would help us come up with something.
     
  16. golden

    golden Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes:
    1,076
    Clear Light
    Hey Womble,

    I am ranging from mild to severe electrosensitive.

    I did best on this front when living in a tent and when well earthed.

    Having said that, it is only this last week in which this subject has literally come knocking on my door.

    The energy company wants to change my meter.

    I have since discovered the Global Smart Meter Iniative . It has been extremely uncomfortable researching!

    So...I too will be happy to hear solutions.. Here is what I have found so far:

    1) In the UK I am not required by law to have a SMART meter unlike other countries. I believe these things are pulsing 24/7 - and are the equivalent of 100-160 mobile phones.

    So I sent a legal template off of Non-Consent and Notice of Liability. To make certain I will not be getting a SMART Meter installed.

    However I too am considering the impact upon me with this Global roll out.

    2) I am going to hire an RF meter so I can test my home and check out emission levels. Something is not right here. I just dont know which equipment is best yet.

    3) I am researching the paint and wallpaper available. Goal: I want products which are testable on the RF meter and show me radiation levels

    are greatly reduced. I do NOT want placebo products eg. crystal pendants.
     
  17. golden

    golden Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes:
    1,076
    Clear Light
    http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/dr-di...reless-microwave-radiation-with-lyme-disease/

    Sorry , technical hitch...

    I thought quite a few people would be interested in this information for treating Lyme disease.

    Golden

    " “One of my primary treatments for Lyme disease is to put people in protective clothing that shields them from incoming microwaves,” he says. ”We shield the bedside. We turn off the wireless internet at home. We put shielding paint on the houses. That has been a more successful strategy to treating Lyme disease and to get people neurologically well than any of the antibiotics or any of the antimicrobial compounds.”[Dr Klinghardt is]…

    “convinced that the increased virulence we’re now seeing is related to the dramatic increase in electromagnetic fields and microwave radiation from cell phones, cell towers, and all manner of wireless technologies. Therefore, EMF and microwave radiation mitigation are part of the standard protocol, as any subsequent treatment of Lyme disease will not be as effective unless.."
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    melamine likes this.
  18. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,387
    Likes:
    5,903
    It's up to individuals how they choose to live their lives, but I'd have thought that it would be really important to know whether EMF was really causing your symptoms or not. If not then you might have better luck when looking for other potential causes for your ill health.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  19. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,041
    Likes:
    1,713
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I asked my brother who is an electrical engineer about shielding yourself from EMFs. He agreed with me - it's just like shielding anything electronic. You put a metal shield around it and connect it to ground (also called earth if you're in the UK).

    I think this website that Hip also linked to is the best one I've seen http://www.lessemf.com. There are an awful lot of scams out there.

    Here's something else you could try, which is to learn EFT and apply that to the problem. http://eft.mercola.com/ It works for me the best for pain and anxiety. However, if it's a longer term issue (like I get these multi day headaches from weather fronts moving in), then healing touch therapy works better. Both of these are fairly easy to learn and you can do them on yourself. Although there are also practitioners you can go to, especially if it's a tough problem. Sometimes these energy therapies work when nothing else will.
     
    melamine likes this.
  20. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

    Messages:
    484
    Likes:
    455
    The sun is in the middle of a polarity flip (north and south poles reverse). It causes massive electromagnetic fluxes in the solar system, increasing auroras and interfering with communication systems.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page