1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
For Jody Smith, the ticking of a clock was enough at one time to chase her back to her bed. But with the passage of time, she has been able to reclaim her living room ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

The delayed fatigue effect in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Bob, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Bob

    Bob

    Messages:
    7,538
    Likes:
    8,805
    England, UK
    The delayed fatigue effect in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)
    Megan A. Arroll, Elizabeth A. Attree, John M. O'Leary, Christine P. Dancey
    Fatigue: Biomedicine, Health & Behavior
    Vol. 2, Iss. 2, 2014
    Published online: 23 Apr 2014
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/21641846.2014.892755


    Dolphin, MeSci, catly and 4 others like this.
  2. Bob

    Bob

    Messages:
    7,538
    Likes:
    8,805
    England, UK
    From the abstract, this looks like it could be a helpful paper (apart from the use of the HADS depression scale), and I originally thought that it nicely backs-up the recent CPET paper.

    Then I noticed the principal author is Megan Arroll, who has been discussed on the forum recently, in negative terms.

    Perhaps it is a helpful paper - We'd need to read the full paper to find out.



    I recently spotted another paper by Megan Arroll which also seems helpful when you start reading the abstract, but then it gets progressively worse as you read on:

    Allostatic overload in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)
    Megan Anne Arroll
    September 2013
    Medical Hypotheses Volume 81, Issue 3 , Pages 506-508
    http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(13)00313-7/abstract

    This is the psycho-social theory whereby they acknowledge an abnormal level of measurable cytokine levels in ME/CFS patients but then blame this on a maladaptive stress response that can be treated with cognitive-behavioural therapies etc.


    So I'll reserve judgement on the new paper until i've read it in full.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    alex3619, Esther12, Sidereal and 2 others like this.
  3. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,047
    Likes:
    5,690
    USA
    It's probably the psychogenic thing -- "Yes, we see you have real measurable symptoms. You are creating them with your dysfunctional thought process."

    Easy to say without any evidence to explain the actual physical mechanism by which patients mentally cause testable physical dysfunction, and puts the impossible burden on the patients to prove that they're not "thinking themselves sick". It's pseudoscience and quackery at it's best.

    Us and our special super-secret mental powers. :ninja: :rolleyes: :rofl:
    PennyIA, peggy-sue, ahimsa and 2 others like this.
  4. Simon

    Simon

    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes:
    3,585
    Monmouth, UK
    Interestingly, this mirrors the finding by Susan Cockshell using a different set of cognitive tests: Cognitive testing causes mental exhaustion lasting days

    However, it's odd not to have a control group: if Cockshell's study is anything to go by, controls get fatigued by the tests too, but recover faster.

    Odd this is in medical hypotheses - the CDC were pushing the Allostasis theory for CFS around 2007 (mainly using empiric criteria for diagnosis...

    I'd also like to see the evidence that stress leads to a substantial increase in pro-inflammatory cytokines; a quick googling suggested rather flaky research.
    peggy-sue, biophile, Roy S and 4 others like this.
  5. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes:
    444
    Toronto
    "This is the psycho-social theory whereby they acknowledge an abnormal level of measurable cytokine levels in ME/CFS patients but then blame this on a maladaptive stress response that can be treated with cognitive-behavioural therapies etc."

    Will it never end! :rolleyes: :bang-head:
    peggy-sue and Bob like this.
  6. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes:
    1,536
    Australia
    Every paper I have ever read on "alostatic states" (no matter what disease) is woolly, bordering on pseudo-science. It is an intriguing hypothesis, but the science is simply not there.
  7. Sidereal

    Sidereal

    Messages:
    65
    Likes:
    180
    Every disease is caused by stress/"allostatic states" until someone comes along and discovers the actual cause.
    NK17, PennyIA, Nielk and 8 others like this.
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,674
    Likes:
    9,827
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Or witches, demons, boojums or snarks! Don't forget the snarks!
    SOC likes this.
  9. Nielk

    Nielk

    Messages:
    5,088
    Likes:
    4,646
    Queens, NY
    If stress and trauma are contributing to the cause of ME/CFS, why did the generation of holocaust survivors not come down in mass with it?
  10. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    426
    Likes:
    1,059
    Obviously because CFS patients are morally defective, pretentious and generally just not decent human beings whereas holocaust survivors are heroes.

    (of course I'm joking here)

    There is a moralistic aspect to the concept of psychosomatic illness. Those who have illnesses considered psychosomatic are seen as bad people. This is not a coincidence, the term psychosomatic was coined in the early 19th century by a German physician who believed that unethical, sinful or immoral behavior was directly responsible for some illnesses.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Christian_August_Heinroth
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
    Little Bluestem, ahimsa, Sean and 5 others like this.
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    5,674
    Likes:
    7,333
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    It is odd that people with a presumed psychosomatic disorder are treated in a manner that would be considered completely unacceptable for mainstream psychiatric patients. There is a strong element of contempt, even from the very "experts" who moan about how poorly psychiatric practitioners and their patients are treated.

    They would say it's unacceptable to withhold medical care for co-existing diagnosis, or benefits, or any other appropriate assistance from traditional psychiatric patients, yet gleefully advocate withholding all of the above from presumed psychosomatic patients. It doesn't make sense ... sometimes I wonder if they just want to exact vengeance upon whatever non-psychiatric patients they can get away with doing it to.
    Dolphin, Sean, Sidereal and 2 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page