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A Little Poisoning Along the Road to ME/CFS
Looking at my symptoms, many of which are far less these days and some are gone, it would be easy to figure that I'd just been dealing with some heavy-duty menopausal issues.
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Test results, woohoo!

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by Valentijn, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Not doing a screenshot because they messed up some of the formatting horribly :p
    Code:
                            RESULT        REF RANGE
      Iron                  14.3 μmol/L   14.0 - 36.0
    L TIBC                  44.7 μmol/L   45.0 - 95.0
      Fe saturation         32 %          20 - 60
      Ferritine             61 ng/mL      16 - 280
      Transferrine          2.26 g/l      1.90 - 3.20
     
    ? Herpes Simples IgG    67.0          <= (?)
    ? Herpes Simples IgM    67.00         <= (?)
      Epstein Barr IgG      0             0 - 20
      Epstein Barr IgM      0             0 - 20
      Epstein Barr nucl.ag. 0             0 - 20
    H (Taxoplasmosis?)      24            0.0 - 10.0
     
      ACTH                  8.2 pg/ml     7.0 - 80.0
    L Oxytocin              1.5 pg/ml     1.6 - 5.0
     
      Epinephrine           4.4 ng/10^10  3.0 - 5.0
    L Norepinephrine        3.8 ng/10^10  4.0 - 6.0
    H Dopamine              38.9 ng/10^10 17.0 - 30.0
      Serotonin             76.0 ng/10^10 65.0 - 550.0
      Metanephrine          9.6 ng/10^10  4.0 - 22.0
      Normetanephrine       7.8 ng/10^10  4.0 - 30.0
    It looks like I might have one or two elevated autoimmune results (ENA, dsDNA, CCP, and/or ANCA), but the formatting is so screwed up I have no idea which ones are elevated, nor what the reference ranges are. I've emailed the lab to ask for clarification.
     
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Interesting. Have u had cmv and hhv6 tested
     
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    So the low(ish) iron combined with low TIBC normal ferritin indicates "anemia of chronic disease". It can be caused by chronic infection or inflammatory disease. Hopefully my iron isn't low enough to be a problem, because if there is an infection, supplementing iron would feed it.

    Norepinephrine is still low, but at least not getting any lower. Serotonin is back in the normal range too, albeit dragging its feet at the low end of the range. More interesting is that dopamine is now high. Maybe something is affecting the conversion of dopamine into norepinephrine at times.
     
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Not yet, the local private lab doesn't do them.
     
  5. biophile

    biophile Places I'd rather be.

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    Normal adrenaline. So much for the Lightning Process! ;)
     
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  6. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Low serum iron and low TIBC can also come from hypothyroidism as well as the anemia of chronic disease. Quite honestly, I think they might be the same thing. Chronic disease almost always ends up including some degree of hypothyroidism.

    I found lactoferrin to be helpful for increasing iron without feeding the pathogens too much. It actually worked really well for me.

    So taxoplasmosis is high...do you have cats? Other than in your garden? Are you planning to treat that?

    Interesting that your ACTH is so low...was the blood drawn later in the afternoon?

    It's also interesting that your oxytocin is low. Have you ever tried any of the sublingual oxytocin? I've always been curious about it.

    I wonder if the Strattera has helped elevate your dopamine?

    Ema
     
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  7. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Valentijn I am pleased for you but I am afraid it is all Greek to me :confused:

    Those 'ref range' presumably they represent, what, a normal range? If so what's e.g. Serotonin doing with such a wide range and how does that relate to anything?

    Can any of these scores be affected by time and situation: can they be related to anything specific or are they treated as indicators to pursue like clues I suppose?

    Sorry to go on but I still am not used to seeing such data. Are they reliable as indicators of anything - don't our levels naturally fluctuate?

    Christ I wish I was capable of understanding more (or maybe not) or had a medical background :eek:
     
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  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I'll look into that, thanks :)
    No cats, though I have lived with outdoor cats in the past (6-7 years ago when previously getting possible Bartonella symptoms - sudden striae with no weight gain, + 3 week numbness on my right side). Also when moving to the Netherlands I experimented a bit with rare steak and such, before learning about bacteria that can survive a good external sear.

    I treat cat problems in the garden with a water gun :D Not sure what I'll do about the toxoplasmosis. I think I need to convince my GP that I have a pretty serious chronic illness with immune dysfunction first, and that's not looking too likely to happen at the moment.
    Nope, first thing in the morning. I've had related HPA results in the past also early in the morning, where values were very close to being low.
    I need too look into that one more. I had it tested because it can effect some other HPA functionality, but now that I've got an odd result I don't know what to do with it :rolleyes:
    I really don't know what's going on there. Dopamine and norepinephrine are both higher now, and epinephrine has stayed at the high end of normal. But if an NRI is making my dopamine higher, why the hell isn't my norepinephrine getting into the normal range? And if it's a problem converting dopamine into norepinephrine, why wasn't dopamine high on previous tests (it was nearer the low end of normal)? I am vexed!
     
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Yes, they're the normal range. I believe the lab I go to does actual normal, instead of normal-among-their-clients with distribution percentages. I think the serotonin range means that there's a very wide range of non-dysfunctional levels someone can have.
    I think HPA related tests can change during the day, with the general expectation that they're higher in the morning. So things at the low end of normal early in the morning might be a bit more odd than being low in the evening.
    Yes, they fluctuate naturally. That's why the reference range (normal) is a range instead a single value :p
     
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  10. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Valentijn OK smarty-pants :) So the 'range' is across a day i.e. a 24 hours 'normal' persons likely range. SO to be proper you would want to test at points throughout the day? Oh sod it. I don't know what I'm on about. Anyway, I am pleased you are pleased :)
     
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I think it's more practical to just read the results with the time-of-day issues in mind.
     
  12. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Well done on getting some facts to work with. I don't know how high your toxoplasmosis is but I'd look into that. Something like that could explain the lowish iron. You mentioned possible Bartonella - have you been tested for that yet?
     
  13. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Yeah, my doctor agreed to do it, amidst a lecture about the psychological impact of focusing on symptoms too much. Blood got drawn for it this morning, and she's also checking on ESR, CRP, and leukocytes again, as well as iron.
     
  14. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Valentijn, your iron levels are normal, within the lab range provided. My iron levels are 5 with a normal range of 10-33 umol/liters, likely a range due to the fact that I am a woman and according to my age group. And no one is panicking about that.

    I would be much more worried about the meaning of the toxopasmose test, and would wonder if there is an active infection going on. Of note, GP's worry about toxoplasmosis only if you are pregnant, or if you have HIV/AIDs. This is so wrong.


    best wishes.
     
  15. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Kati

    There is a big difference between normal and optimal. Most reference ranges are statistical creations covering 95% of the tested population. Many doctors agree that normal ranges are far too wide. To fall outside the ranges is a big deal. It's far better in my opinion to learn your doctor's optimal ranges and catch problems earlier.

    I agree that Valentijn should address the toxoplasmosis but that doesn't mean the iron result should be ignored.

    Ema
     
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  16. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    i have no desire to argue, however my observation is that people with the most neglected diseases tend to knit pick their blood work.

    Take a look at the whole picture: what is the problem here? Well, we don't quite know. Is it viral, immune dysregulation, a pathogen? There may be a few or all of the above, and a few different illnesses. i read somewhere that Kenny De Merleir has fallen away from ME/.CFS and seems to think all of the ME ptients have either something else, or Lyme/Bartonella.

    So we go on a goose chase, looking for culprits to explain why we feel so terrible. The iron pannel can be a good idea if the person is short of breath and if the hemoglobin and hematocrit are low (I mean below range)

    However these results, just like mine are not enough to explain fatigue and lack of stamina to attend personal care for people with this disease.

    I don't mean to be disrespectful to Valentjn and his blood results, it is an observation from my point of view, having worked as a RN for 20 years, and seeing the side of the physicians who do interpret these results against the clinical picture.

    My recommendation: find a physician you trust and discuss your blood results and see what they think.
     
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  17. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    In my understanding it is more that he is finding that we have a combination of pathogens that create domino effects in the body--not that we have "something else."

    Sushi
     
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  18. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Sushi, I got this from the thread going around from this person visiting him right now and she is not the only one to say that he said there was no such thing as ME.

    i am very curious to see his oncoming publication which is supposed to be groundbreaking.

    sorry it's off-topic.
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I'm very much aware of that :p I ordered these tests too 1) look for any treatable problems and 2) maybe get a bigger picture of what's going on in certain processes. I was more interested in the possibility of high iron or abnormal storage/transportation (which the low TIBC does indicate), especially since I have an SNP with one allele known to cause iron-related disease when homozygous, yet which also has a statistically significant impact when heterozygous.
     
    Kati likes this.
  20. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    Based on my observations I concluded it is a viral pathogen causing immune dysfunction and I have no reason to change my opion.
     

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