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teeth hurt at gum line- enamel and B12?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by suzanne, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. suzanne

    suzanne Senior Member

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    I have just noticed that a couple of my teeth are hurting near the gum line- I am wondering if the methyl b12 has worn away the enamel? it is really sensitive to brush.

    Any thoughts about how i deal with this?
    BTW I have been taking 1000mcg methyl B12 for 4 months now and this problem only just happened. I have been taking Jarrows brand- do I reccall someone saying that this may wear away the enamel- should I change to the enzymatic brand?

    Will I need those teeth that have been affected filled?

    thanks for any experience with this.

    Suzanne
     
  2. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

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    Hi, Suzanne.

    I had the same problem with Jarrows brand right away. I contacted Jarrow to complain about acid in the pills and was told that the amount of acid is very small. The rep asked for more information, which I gave, but I have not heard from her again.

    Placing the Jarrow tabs under my tongue, rather than between gums and cheek helps (no more sore gums), but my teeth still feel funny after I use Jarrow. I alternate between the Jarrow tabs and the Enzymatic tabs. When the Jarrow tabs are gone, I probably won't buy more.

    The Enzymatic tabs, unfortunately, encourage candida. The tabs do contain sucrose. I've had trouble with sore tongue, sore throat, and even soreness up into the nasal cavity. Gargling with baking soda solution or applying baking soda directly to sore area (when possible) has helped.

    Good luck.
     
  3. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, all.

    I think that some of the B12 sublinguals contain citric acid, and I think the purpose of that is to keep the B12 molecule from ionizing, so that it can diffuse into the mucosa more readily. However, citrate is a calcium chelator, so it can attack the enamel on the teeth. Taking these under the tongue would probably be preferable. Here's an article about remineralization of tooth enamel: http://derrdian.hubpages.com/hub/Strenghtening-Tooth-Enamel-Through-Re-Mineralization

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  4. Idie

    Idie

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    Yes, sore teeth and gums is a common problem with the Jarrows brand. I complained to the company as have others but no change has been made. Perhaps because of Rich's explanation. I did have my dentist check my teeth and he could find no erosion. What I did that helped was to cut the sublingual in half and put one half under each side of my tongue at the same time. I got this tip from Fredd

    The other thing I did was rinse my mouth mouth with warm salt water three times a day.

    My teeth got so sensitive that I could barely chew. Cutting the sublinguals into smaller portions did help quite a bit.
     
  5. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

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    Thanks, Rich & Idie.
     
  6. suzanne

    suzanne Senior Member

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    All good tips- thanks heaps.
    I am already taking the supplement recommended for re mineralisation, but it is intesting to have access to this research- thanks Rich- it helps to know that there is such a thing as re mineralistion. in that case,
    I will switch to the enzymatic brand and wait a while before going to the dentist. I might also take up the suggestion from Idie and try to change to putting the s.l under my tongue.

    BTW, I am now at about the 4 1/2 month point and had been feeling like I plateaued- I added some pomegranate extract about 3 weeks ago and initially felt terrible ( on 1 tsp) but have now switched to tablets (1/4 500mg) and even though it is a tiny dose I am strating to feel gd. probalby too soon to celebrate but it really feels like I have turned a corner. So much so that in the last week I have done 2 step aeobics classes and I haven't been able to do these for 3 years. i am going to keep going with this pomegranate ( which I have read does play a part with fibrolyalgia and Nitric oxide) and report back in after another month or so, when I can be more confident that this is really working for me.

    Just a hunch, but I have had a candida problem for more years than I can remember and I reckon the pomegranate is dealing with this- I just have to go slow!!!

    Suzanne
     
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    O.K., Suzanne.

    I hope things will continue to improve for you.

    Rich
     
  8. Jessrose21

    Jessrose21

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    I'm glad to find this thread, as I was about to post on the same topic! I just started Jarrow's methyl B12 5mcg several days ago and noticed yesterday and today that my teeth are very sensitive and sore on one side. I also have had diarrhea which I'm sure is from the B12 as I rarely have that issue unless something in my precariously balanced diet and supplements are changed. I had no problems on the Genestra Seroyal (cyanocobalamin) B12 tablets and they give me a noticeable increase in ability to recover from the exertion of daily activities (which aren't much!) That's what gave me the idea to try the B12 methylation process since I noticed such a difference with the cyano b12. Not sure what I'm going to do about the Jarrow's. I appreciate anyone's suggestions although I don't want to hijack the thread.
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    This is a general reply for this problem. First there are remineralizing products that work. Any change mb12 makes in DAYS is due to changes in the nerves. A major cause of perceived tooth pain ls actually gum sensitivity from not flossing. This leaves chronic infectiions in all the gums. If you brush and floss daily and remocve all the plaque on the surfaces of the teeth with a physical or waterpik device and you pass your peridontal probbing with all 2 and 3 depth with probbing, most of the pain will be gone. However retreating gums cause by gum disease exposes parts of the tooth that are very sensitive. Good daily oral care will preven increasing problems. Mb12 restores sensation to the nerves, it doesn't cause pai. Mb12 deficiency causes pain and sensitivity in response to heat and cold. Mb12 brings back numbed nerves so you feel it much more. This again is more of a perceptual problem as people also have it with the Enzymatic Therapy brand which has no citric acid in it. Sensidyne tooth paste works well at numbing the tooth to below enamel sensitivity. If you do not floss and pick and brush EVERY DAY you are asking for pain and trouble and heart diease and other complications from infections that enter the blood stream. Two days without flossing can cause painful and bleeding gums. Be honest now, are there any of you complaining of pain that floss and pick and brush everyday and pass your 6 month exams with all 2s and 3s on your gum exam?
     
  10. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

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    Fredd, I must say, respectfully, that i think that you are mistaken in your assumptions.

    There is something odd about the Jarrow formula that causes gum pain (sometimes feels like swelling) that I have not experienced with Enzymatic Therapy methyl B-12.

    I have long taken very good care of my teeth and gums, brushing after every meal or snack, flossing at least once a day. Also, for years I've limited my consumption of sweets because they cause me digestive problems. Hygienists and dentists have often remarked on my good dental health.

    Thank you for giving some thought to the cause of complaints about brands of methyl B-12. I do appreciate the effort you go to to help others.
     
    L'engle likes this.
  11. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    The Solgar 5mg are easier on the mouth, I find. I have no proof beyond my own scenario that they are as good as the Jarrow's, but I seem to get a good benefit from them. AOR's methylcobalamin is also easier on the mouth but I don't know where you can purchase it outside Canada.
     
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Merry,

    Boy that is strange, Last night I made a long post to you on this subject and it isn't there today. In any case one thing I would like to mention. A couple of people who have tried pure mb12 crystal have had the same effect with the teeth sensitivity and maybe swelling. I am familiar with that "swelling" myself. It's the only oral reaction I get any more after 8.5 years. Mb12 appears to increase blood flow to an area. Do you think that could be related to increased blood flow?


    I spent 20+ years consulting and supervising/auditing group health plans including a lot of dental. There is a hierarchy of causes of pain that can be worked through with teeth. B12 deficiency is known to increase pain from gum infections, heat and cold sensitivity of teeth and hypersentitivity and painful hypersensitivity in general. Taking mb12 can boost pain perception all over the body including teeth as the nerves start waking up from deficiency. So these things can be looked at in layers of pain. Removing one layer often reveals another layer that was occulted by the more obvious ones. At best it is a percentage play of what is likely.

    How old are you? Have your gums receded exposing areas below the enamel? That will cause pain regardless of current gum care. Figuring these things out can be quite complicated.
     
  13. Merry

    Merry Senior Member

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    Hi, Fredd.

    Sorry to hear that what you wrote last night to me disappeared.

    Your work experience is interesting. I can see why you are keen to look at the tooth and gum pain problems.

    The worst of the pain, which had been at the gum line of two teeth, occurred within 24 hours of first use of Jarrow methyl B-12. I had placed the tablets between my cheek and gum, right below those teeth.

    Because of that pain, I switched back to Enzymatic, and then once the gum felt better under those two teeth, I began alternating Jarrow and Enzygmatic so I could use up the Jarrow (didn't want to waste money). Also, rather than place tablets between cheek and gum, I put them under my tongue. With the tablets under my tongue, I salivate much more, and the tablets don't last as long. The Enzymatic tablets, especially, dissolve fast.

    I am 60. I don't know about receding gums. I didn't have sensitive teeth before I started taking the Jarrow tablets.

    I've been on methyl B-12 four months now. I have not experienced more pain in general since starting the protocol. The pain I had been experiencing most often was pain in my blood vessels, and that problem has been must less since I started the methyl B-12.

    I can't remember if I said earlier in this thread that I've been on Rich's modified protocol, except I have only tried folinic acid twice, a few days each time and wasn't sure if it increased fluey symptoms. I intend to try it again.

    As long as the methy B-12 tablets won't damage the gum permanently or damage tooth enamel, I don't consider the side effects of B-12 tablet use as a significant problem. And, anyway, I plan to discontinue use of Jarrow, the brand that caused the most trouble.

    Thank you for your interest.

    PS I wrote more about experiences on this treatment protocol in the second post of this thread:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...at-another-sign-of-immune-system-reactivation
     
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Merry,

    I'm 63 and have been using the Jarrow for 8.5 years. My dentist can find no actual indication of damage. Because I have some of the usual age related gum shrinkage I have a little exposure below the enamel. That is where the teeth are sensitive and Sensidyne helps. My dentist did prescribe Colgate Prevident 5000 which is a floride treatment tooth paste that hardens up the surface. Folinic acid as well as folic acid can cause paradoxical folate deficiency in some folks. Metafolin doesn't do that.

    Occuring at first use can't be any kind of damage as that is very slow if at all. We are talking something far less acid than orange juice. That is almost certainly below enamel sensitivity which I used to have much more so or gum sensitivity, which I used to have. My tooth damage comes from years of usage of the old "hard" toothbrushes that were so popular in the 50s through 80s before "soft" became the brushes of choice.

    Good luck.
     
  15. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Thanks, Rich. I think this is partcularly helpful.
     

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