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taurine for MCS?

Discussion in 'Addressing Biotoxin, Chemical & Food Sensitivities' started by determined, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    I went through a very long period of severe multiple chemical sensitivity, but gradually, it got better (calcium d-glucarate has helped quite a bit, as well as evening primrose oil...it's also possible that doxycycline has helped too, I'm not sure about it yet).

    Currently, I am doing very well. I have found the methylation supplements to be very helpful with weakness and fatigue, but it seems that since I've started them (over a year now), I'm more chemically sensitive (but not nearly as badly as I have been in the past).

    According to 23andme, I am a poor metabolizer and have a problem with the CYP26D enzyme.

    I am wondering if taurine has helped anyone on the forum who had severe MCS. I also have a big problem lately with anxiety as well, and I've read that taurine may help with this too. If it helped you, how much did you take and were there any unpleasant "start-up symptoms?"

    Thanks!
  2. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    I think taurine is helpful, I take it before meals. I take only a small amount each time, less than 1/8 tsp. No start up symptoms that I noticed. Try magnesium also for anxiety.
  3. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    Thanks, Adster. Yes, I have noticed that a constant, steady dose of magnesium is helpful for anxiety. If I deviate from my dosing schedule, I will be sure to get an "anxiety blast."

    Can you quantify how much the taurine helped with MCS? Do you open up capsules or does it come as a powder?
  4. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    I couldn't really say how much it's helped sorry. I've been using it for years now and it seemed to help so I kept using it. It's quite cheap from iherb, I use Now Foods brand powder.
  5. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Methylation supps (as contained in Thorne Labs Basic Nutrients IV multivitamin) help my MCS quite a bit. I'm taking 2 of those a day.

    I'm also taking, I think, about 6 taurines a day. They don't make any difference with MCS but do help with waking up with a racing heartbeat at night. I don't remember any startup symptoms. Theanine and magnesium are also calming. Relora is good if you have high cortisol.

    I wonder why your MCS would get worse with methylation supps. It should get better as you build glutathione. I don't understand how any of the other supps or meds you mentioned would help with MCS.

    MCS is caused by a lack of glutathione in the liver. For every toxin molecule you breathe, eat, or absorb through your skin, your liver gives up one glutathione molecule. If you have enough glutathione, you'll be able to tolerate the substance. If not, you react to even tiny amounts of toxins that wouldn't bother any normal person, thus exhibiting MCS.
  6. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    I don't think MCS is always as simple as that caledonia. MCS is exacerbated by brain over stimulation (in my experience) and methylation supplements often make this worse for many of us. I know this for a fact. Anything that causes brain overstimulation as a side effect for me gives me an immediate increase in chemical sensitivity.

    This makes it very difficult for me to follow the methylation program as my MCS is so severe that I can't afford any level of worsening. It doesn't just make my sensitivity worse, but the actual reactions become more severe too.

    determined: How did you interpret your 23andMe result for CYP26D?
    I'm also curious how much calcium d-glucarate you took and how long you took to see improvement?
    Anne P likes this.
  7. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    Hi hixxy, I think I misspoke....

    Calcium d-glucarate was something I tried, thinking it should help my MCS, but instead it helped with my food tolerance. It also helped greatly with my chronic migraines. Sorry about that.....

    I took it for about a month at the top dose (6 capsules a day, but I had to work up to it...it caused some stomachaches on start up) and then I saw the results.

    Like I said, it's very possible doxycycline has had a major effect - when I take a slightly higher dose, I get a big blast of chemical sensitivity, then it calms down a bit. My MCS always gets worse when I have a viral infection, but it usually gets BETTER, sometimes used to almost disappear, with a bacterial infection like strep throat. It's a complicated symptom that I haven't really ever been able to shake, but it is probably 90% better than it used to be (I can work part time).

    I ran my 23andme results through Prometheus. It categorizes the information and the poor metabolizer status was at the top of the list.

    Here is a discussion on how to use Prometheus (near the end). http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?10973-23andme-genetic-testing
  8. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Hixxy, - MCS worsened by brain overstimulation. I haven't had this effect. That's interesting.

    As far as Determined's MCS getting worse with a viral infection, that would be something else that adds to glutathione depletion.

    Maybe somehow brain overstimulation also depletes glutathione, but I'm not sure how.
  9. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Hey, I think I just figured this out, based on something that Rich wrote. Any stressor causes glutathione depletion. So the brain overstimulation would be another stressor, causing glutathione depletion, thus making MCS worse.

    By the way, there is a supplement I take that helps with overstimulation, called Neuro Medulla Complex by Professional Health Products. I only need 1/2 capsule per day.
  10. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Are you aware that the vast majority of MCS reactions are neurologically mediated and in that via the NMDA receptor? This has been fairy well known even since before Martin Pall's theories as there were dcotors back in the late 90s experiementing with NMDA blockers to reduce severity reactions with some success.. Increased activity on the NMDA receptor == brain overstimulation. If for instance you have too many reacions on a regular basis, the NMDA receptor isn't going to have the time to "slow" back down again, resulting in further increased overstimulation.

    I don't believe that Martin Pall's theory on MCS is complete, but I definitely believe it's a step in the right direction.

    The actual sensitising to chemical is a neurological problem, level of sensitivity and seveity of reactions are a neurological problem. What chemical you are sensitised to is no indicator that you happen to be toxioc with that particular chemical either. Plenty of people have strong sensitivities to certain chemicals that toxic burdens can be detected through pathology testing, but come back negative.

    Upon discussion with consultants at EHCD, they don't recommend suana therapy to anyone who doesn't test positive to having a toxic "body burden". So Toxic "body burden" is not the only cause for MCS.

    I might also mention that Rich's theory of glutathione depletion in the nasal cavity (roof of?) isn't a complete explanation either, as some people (like myself) have rapid reactions via the mouth as well, not to mention peripheral reactions in the rest of the body. The reactions via the nasal cavity are most certainly stronger.

    I remember seeing a doctor a few yeasr ago who specialised on MCS (he's retired now) and told me of a trend on peoples FLDP results. It was almost always apparent that those with MCS alone, only had very slightly low glutathionation (almost normal), while those with CFS, had drastically low glutathionation. It would be interesting to know what these said peoples methylation panlel's would have showed up as.

    I'm interested to hear if anyone else on the methylation protocols has had MCS worsening??

    Even a small dose of methylB12 sends me MCS sensitivity (and overstimulation) ballistic. Glutathione makes my neurological symptoms worsen and seubsequently does the same for my MCS. Calcium supplementation does the same (clearly I have a major intracellular calcium problem).

    I'm certain there are people with MCS who have it for purely "toxic" reasons -- as some people do get better just with detox, just like there are some who improve on Martin Pall's protocols, but there are certainly a lot more factors at play in this disease and I believe there are different varieties in this disease process. Certainly all of these are far from explained yet.
    Anne P likes this.
  11. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    How do they measure whether people have a "toxic body burden" of chemicals?

    My guess is that they do it through the urine or possibly through the feces. If that's the case, then this may be really misleading. In general, if people are in a bad environment, their bodies stop detoxifying entirely (probably a wise move since just coping with the current exposures is too much). If that's the case, then there will be little toxic material in the feces or urine to be measured, regardless of how big the true body burden is.

    I have heard many stories of people testing negative for trichothocenes in a bad environment but then positive shortly afterwards, in a better place, for instance.

    In general, if people are in such a bad environment that their bodies are not excreting toxins, then forcing it (e.g. through sauna) would be a very bad idea. So the advice given here ("Don't use the sauna if the test comes up negative") might be appropriate, actually.

    The way to tell if people actually have a body burden of various toxins would be to do a fat biopsy, but that is almost never done. With the biotoxins, much of the body burden is actually stored in the brain, and so that would be impossible unless people actually are dead already.

    Of course, it may be that people are reacting to chemicals that they have not been exposed to unduly, through the phenomenon of spreading. That doesn't mean that they don't have a high body burden of toxins in general though -- just not the ones that people are testing for.

    All in all, concluding that toxicity is not the cause of this disease based on the information that we have so far seems quite premature. Things often are a lot more complicated than they seem on the surface.

    BEst, Lisa
  12. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    From my contact with EHCD, they actually prefer some Breath test that Dr Rea developed himself that they have in clinic, followed by the Toxic Effects Profiles from Metametrix whcih are from a combination of urine, whole blood and seruim, followed by the Acumen Labs Fat Biopsies. Apparently the fat biopsies give many false negatives. All you have to do is hit the wrong spot and you miss the toxic build up. You have to do multiple of them from different places.

    They were encouragine me to go the Metametrix path, but I just didn't have the money at the time.

    I'm not entirely sure there is an accurate test for heavy metal poisoning though.
  13. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    I really like Rea's conception of chemical sensitivity and think that he may well be right with regard to much of it.

    He developed it mostly by observing people who were exposed to toxins in their workplaces. Those are pretty clearcut exposures: you know what the chemical is and some of the effects, and it's pretty easy to get people away from the chemical since it's only used in certain places.

    What he found is that in order for people to recover, they needed to scrupulously avoid that chemical. If they did, their "secondaries" (other reactivities that they acquired by spreading) eventually would die down. Even more time and detox was needed before the "primary" ones (the reactivity to the specific chemical that the person got the big exposure to) would go away.

    If we assume that this is the paradigm for all toxins, then people who are exposed to (say) toxic mold or mercury would want to get totally away from those substances while trying to recover. Unfortunately, Rea has not taken the precepts he developed for the treatment of other chemical sensitivities to toxic mold.

    For instance, his clinic is located in Dallas, which is a city with a large amount of toxic mold indoors and outdoors. He advises people not to go outdoors at all, and to sit indoors with the air purifiers running, because he knows the outdoor air is bad. However, those of us who have been successful at getting clear of environmental molds have found that air purifiers do almost nothing to address that problem. (Air purifiers filter out spores, but it's the toxic gases that are the problem.)

    In addition, many people show up at his clinic with cross-contamination from their moldy houses on their clothing. This has an effect on them while they're trying to recover, and it can have an effect on other patients as well.

    Rea does attempt to test people for mycotoxins, using Real Time Labs' test. However, as I say, that's not a terribly accurate test, especially for people still getting mold exposures. Dr. Ritchie Shoemaker warned me under no circumstances should I use that test for my research work, because it's such an inaccurate test.

    CFS appears to be a disease that is specifically associated with biotoxins. Unfortunately, Rea's center is not equipped to handle that problem. People whose primary exposure is to something other than biotoxins conceivably might have more success there, but I'm not absolutely sure of that.

    As I say though, I do like his conception of the illness dynamic.

    Best, Lisa
  14. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Indeed. It would be near to impossible to indentify the guilty chemical for me. Since MCS hit full steam ahead in the last couple of years, I realised that earlier in my life I was likely having minor chemical sensitivity troubles then as well. So who knows when it started or what triggered it or if it was an ongoing process in my body (dysbiosis) causing it. I suspect the latter. I was being treated by doctors for suspected fungal infection when my MCS started to gradually get worse. Each time I went through antifungals the my MCS got a lot worse.

    Little did I know I actually had enormous H2S producing SIBO at the same time and the space the candida was vacating was just being reoccupied by pathogenic bacteria.

    So it's well know candida toxins can set of MCS, but Martin Pall also identified that H2S can do the same via activating the TRP receptors and subsequently the NMDA receptor.

    I believe there are some theories starting to float around the web that sensitivity to salicylates and amines may also develop via some sort of excessive TRP receptor activity, and not because your body is unable to detoxify them.

    Food for thought. Always good to keep an open mind about different options, because so little about our illness and anything related to it has been proven yet and who knows, the path to wellness may end up being different for all of us.
    Anne P likes this.
  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Hixxy, did you ever try a NMDA antagonist, or modulator? How do you react to NAC?
  16. Gavman

    Gavman Senior Member

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    Hixxy,

    After getting worse reactions after taking B12 and methylfolate after a while, i decided to work on the other two cycles of methylation, B6 & zinc and TMG & l-methionine.
    I started improving quite alot from that. My calcium intake has been decent as a kid and i've had a broken bone after too much magnesium, its more releasing tension in muscles that seems to be a problem. After throwing my body around everywhere, its amazing i havent broken more bones. Anyway, could be useful to look into it.
    Anne P likes this.
  17. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    I tolerate NAC fine, it's just not very helpful. NMDA antagonists on the other hand I don't tolerate at all well. I tried memantine and even on a low dose my startle response went through the roof. As the dose increased, the side effects only got worse. I was so on edge all the time. Was not calming at all.

    I also tried dextromethorphan at one point to try control MCS reactions. (Some people have some success with it). It didn't help at all.
  18. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Thanks Gavman. I'll keep that in mind. I think I'm going to get the Methylation Panel done very very soon. That's interesting about cal/mag. I know I have both a calcium and a magnesium deficiency, but am completely unable to touch calcium due to what would seem like calcium channel problems. Major exacerbation of neurological symptoms when I supplement it.

    I'm such a sensitive fragile creature. :confused:
  19. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Here is a article about NMDA antagonist. The supplement in question was hard to find 3 - 4 years ago, but is much easier now and appears to have favorable reviews for the most part. These reveiews are not related to our conditions in any way, but are geared more towards fitness improvements. I took it for awhile and and a positive reaction, but nothing major. It would probably would have been better in my case after methylation was started and was in an upward trend.

    It is actually a byproduct of some sorts from L-Arginine, but it appears to be considered a neurotransmitter by some. It is called Agmatine and as you will read that it can have a strong effect on NMDA due to it is not blocked by certain actions. I really wish someone that really could look into this that has the knowledge of real effect and look for different sources of information as I certainly would not base it on this one. Hopefuly it may be of some help if it turns out to be something you wish to try, but please get more information before doing so.

    http://neurotransmitter.net/neardeath.html
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922054/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922054/
  20. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    This must be uncommon, but taurine for me is like guaranteed insomnia in a pill, even with small amounts taken as soon as I wake up. I know of one other person who is affected like this, also. It's too bad since taurine is in so many inhibitory supplements.

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