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Talking / mental fatigue

Discussion in 'Cognition' started by pine108kell, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    I know this is not a new topic. Too mentally fatigued/overstimulated to do search. Does anyone else feel most worse just when trying to talk (especially while sitting upright), process images, compose a paragraph than doing menial physical tasks?

    It is not just the brain fog but complete meltdown, agitation, achy feeling, complete overstimulation and mental fatigue. Golstein once wrote of a patient that had to quit school because of mental fatigue but could still run the marathon. This greatly exagerates my condition as physical fatigue and OI are disabling. But it often easier for me to do some laundry, wash dishes, or walk around block and sometimes even more than just have a normal conversation or process images, etc. i don't know how a healthy person can understand this and I still have to try and describe it to family, doctors, disability.

    In terms of treatment i've gotten limited help from Goldstein's ideas, nitroglycerin (very temorary) and nimodipine (not consistent response and expensive). Not sure what response I am looking for just tired of symptoms and having to keel describing them to famiky, doctors and disability.
     
    Fogbuster, AdamS, MeSci and 11 others like this.
  2. ryan31337

    ryan31337 Senior Member

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    Yup, i've experienced this.

    In a 'normal' PEM situation I cannot tolerate physical or cognitive activity. Physical tends to be exacerbated OI and joint/muscle pain & weakness, mental tends to be the cognitive issues that you referred to.

    When I've had cognitive-only 'PEM' I think it's probably come from GI issues. The most obvious case of this was when I was still eating gluten. I'd be in a complete mental stupor the next day but assuming I could find my way to the pool, I'd be quite capable of switching off the brain and doing gentle swimming without a melt-down - often it'd even clear my head a little too. I'm very strict with the diet now but can still find some gut upsets can trigger this sort of response rarely.
     
    MeSci, merylg and South like this.
  3. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    i had to give up my diploma due to this, studying was crashing the me/cfs... and back then the affects of study were worst for me then the physical stuff. nowdays both are bad for me. meetings or chatting to visitors often leave me wiped out and having to go to bed afterwards.
     
  4. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Hi @pine108kell yes talking is a huge effort to me too and can cause relapses. i am thankful I live by myself, so I am not forced to talk. Many do not understand this phenomenon and some can feel vexed that I refuse to talk on the phone, reserving this for just 2 or 3 people in my life, and no more than twice a week.

    Any kind of cognitive work, including processing images, causes me to crash as well. i have gotten better over the years at making sure that most of my cognitive work is done while horizontal. It helps quite a bit but still, cognitive work is largely off-limit. Unfortunately and I tried, my desktop does not do well on my lap in bed (large Imac) so I really need to sit in order to process images. I am thankful for an ipad in bed but it cannot process images.

    In the first few years, I couldn't comprehend why doing my taxes (simple additions) could send me straight to bed and feeling horribly sick. I split that work over a few days now and make sure I prop my feet on the coffee table, or try to do it in bed.

    I am looking forward to more science and understanding about what really went wrong for us.

    Best, Kati
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
    MeSci, PallasKat, PNR2008 and 5 others like this.
  5. AndyPR

    AndyPR Tired Sam ate all the cookies!

    I have the same issue that, while my physical symptoms are disabling enough, my brain fog/inability to process New information is the worst part of my ME. Nothing more to add really, other than you're not alone with this :)
     
    AdamS, MeSci, merylg and 2 others like this.
  6. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    I limit phone calls to 20 minutes max. and all the female members of my family know it. I also haven't been out for a drink with friends for weeks for the same reason, sitting straight, paying attention and listening to someone droning on is simply too exhausting and not worth the price I have to pay for it. I'd rather be symptom-free than have a social life.
     
  7. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Yes talking can be particularly hard to deal with! Having visitors can send me to bed for weeks afterwards as the talking can be too much - and I tend to get carried away and enjoy it too much.

    Luckliy my family are out of the house most of the day so I can be quiet and rest. Holidays are lovely when everyone is around, but I always crash after them and im sure a large part of this is the extra interaction and talking.

    I also find being emotional, laughing or crying can give me a big crash so I try and avoid it...which is sad in itself really.
     
  8. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    Absolutely! I was so happy when I found out others have the same problems because I thought it was weird that talking (me talking AND others talking) made me so tired.

    When I'm watching tv and processing the images I don't hear the audio and vice versa.

    For me it's a balance between taxing myself too much mentally (talking, processing images, composing a paragraph) and taxing myself physically (doing menial physical tasks, walking, lifting things, etc).
     
  9. Amaya2014

    Amaya2014 Senior Member

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    Same here. I was military so I thought well if I can't run and be active any more, at least I can do my job as a counselor. Even with cutting out all the exercise, I couldn't sit at a desk, read and respond to emails without my head ending up on the desk....crashing. Co-workers would have to help me to and from the restroom at times.

    I graduated up to master's level always at the top of my class. I seriously doubt I would've graduated high school if I had this illness.:(
     
  10. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

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    Talking to someone with whom I'm not comfortable or don't know very well will have me foggy in minutes too. Also in situations where everyone is talking over each other - just horrible. I feel the fog between my eyes/behind my nose, it becomes a headache very quickly if I don't escape.
    You are not alone @pine108kell.
     
  11. u&iraok

    u&iraok Senior Member

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    The talking-over thing? Fuhgeddaboutit! My husband talks all through-out movies. I have to tell him, please pause the movie and then you can talk. If I have subtitles then I just ignore what he says! Sorry, honey, but I warned you!

    Sometimes I feel like I'm going to lose my mind if there is two voices at once or two noises at once! The Clash of the Noises.
     
  12. meandthecat

    meandthecat Senior Member

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    It always struck me that if psychologists had real curiosity and a thirst for knowledge rather than the tick box bigotry they promote we offer an extraordinary opportunity to study cognition. I go through the same symptoms time and again, there is a huge range of deficits I experience when pushing too hard, from minor perceptual, through executive function and judgement to profound theories of mind stuff.
    I hosted an open garden day where I work last week, it put me in bed for the weekend and I am resting up now for who knows how long. It was the talking that did it, it leads to a feeling of tired beyond tired that takes as long as it takes to ease.
    If I hadn't encountered psychedelics when I was younger it would be deeply disturbing, as it is it just a pain.

    You are not alone
     
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  13. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    I haven't seen, spoken by phone or Skype for 4 months now. Nothing. Really crazy.
    Even if someone just walks into my house without seeing me I PEM crash. I'm already mostly bedbound.
    I can still do some little tasks like get food. Or go to the toilet. But talking forget about it..... Sucks though. Need social contact
     
    sandgroper, Izola, NL93 and 5 others like this.
  14. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    So sorry @Grigor sounds bad. This illness is so isolating. Glad you can use the computer though.
     
    AdamS, NL93, Mrs Sowester and 5 others like this.
  15. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    It is. Very annoying. Specially now with the beautiful weather in the dark. Blegh. Use the phone though. Computer too much information and light.
     
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  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I dread phones and conversations. I'm better at both, now. But it's exhausting. I take antioxidants afterwards, and lie down, w/ eyes covered. Coffee has become one of my antioxidants, v useful in these situations. I manage computer better, but still am pretty limited. My conversations are pretty much limited to my husband. And when he gets into talking, I don't understand how he can't see my eyes glazing over, my body drooping, my eyes looking like a wild horse looking for escape. And that's just listening.:meh:
     
  17. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    I don't talk by phone . Just typing. Thank God for smartphones these days.
     
    sandgroper and ahmo like this.
  18. NL93

    NL93 Senior Member

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    Oh god yes. This illness is even more annoying in summer. I can hear my neighbours having a party on the roof of my appartment (i used to join them), and now i am trapped in the dark in my bed not knowing when/if this will ever get better. It's the worst thing ever
     
    L'engle, Catjbro, Grigor and 2 others like this.
  19. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    Yeah. Crazy.....
     
  20. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    I'm dealing with this right now. I have several days left of a month long family visit and have basically lost the ability to talk in the last few hours. I don't know what I will do as I am now unable to even explain it verbally. I don't really know how much people understand this and it's annoying to feel that I will be perceived as shy or moody when I am just really far beyond my limits. I don't feel like I have any control right now, just 'this is the way things are' and I have to cope with it whether it's ok or not. I'm too weak to even leave and go somewhere to quietly look at the ocean or something to get me out of this house.

    update: I managed to get the idea across to my mum in one or two word utterances. So she knows why I'm not talking at least. At least I have my phone. Written communication seems unaffected but I can't make the complicated sequences needed for speech.

    Now I know what happens if my limits of verbal interaction are pushed over prolonged time. I tried to see if I could say that out loud but only got 'prolonged' and actually started to laugh/cry because the rest was impossible.

    It was really hot yesterday. That tends to cause weird neurological things.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016

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