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Talk to me about fish oil and and CoQ10

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by SOC, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I have read that fish oil and CoQ10 are suggested for people with high blood pressure -- to lower BP, presumably?

    It's also often recommended for PWCs. But since many of us have low BP, couldn't this be a problem?

    Can someone give me more insight/details/expereince on these supplements?
  2. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    I like them both. Fish oils are normalising so either with high or low BP it should not matter. Also it is the EPA component of fish oils that is most associated with this effect. I take alot of it daily. For PWCs with low BP, wudnt you just take salt to increase the BP ?
  3. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    That is far from sufficient for many PWCs. My daughter, for example, can't keep her BP up with any amount of extra salt and has to take Florinef. She also gets unexplained bruising and excessive bleeding with fish oil.

    I, on the other hand, being...er... not so slender as my daughter, can keep my BP reasonable with lots of extra salt, but I, too, get bruising and excessive bleeding with fish oil.
  4. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Then you shud STOP taking it and maybe come back to it at another time in your recovery. Omega 3 oils thin the blood, making you more prone to bruising and cuts take a longer time to heal. Stop taking it !
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    i took fish oil(9caps a day) for a long time and never noticed any difference with it in feelable effects, as far as cholesterol go's when i stopped using it my cholesterol did change. I used a non flush form of niacin 1000mg twice a day and my cholesterol has dropped to a good level. I have also heard that a high dose vit b5 is also good cholesterol lowering supp in doses of 1000mg, so im going to add this mainly for adrenals but will see if it helps cholesterol even more. As for q10 i have used doses of 100mg and cant say i have noticed any difference, but have read that NADH works on a similar cellular level to Q10 and i did notice some energy from NADH.

    cheers!!!
  6. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    No worries! We did stop taking it many months ago. :D

    What does "thin the blood" mean? I've heard it a lot, but I don't understand it.

    I'm just wondering if, now that I'm somewhat better and my BP is not so low, if I (not my daughter) might give it another try. Probably not, if it's still going to "thin my blood", assuming that has something to do with bleeding and clotting...?
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    thin blood is a laymans terms so its easier for people to understand, but we have clotting factors in our blood and in heart disease if a cholesterol clot breaks free, our body tries to repair this damage from where the clot broke off and our blood tries to form a clot to repair it. Damage can happen from this cholesterol clot floating around but also from where the clot broke off. One example is if u picked a sore on your leg a scab forms which is bigger then the original sore, now where the cholesterol broke off the artery the same thing happens and a bigger clott is formed to replace what has broken away, this narrows the blood vessels further and if blocks a coronary blood vessel, then u have a heart attack. Also if u can reduce your clotting factors, that bit of cholesterol thats also now floating around can also be disolved which can also cause a possible heart attack, stroke, DVT, or pulmonary embolism. This is also why asprin is recommended for people at risk or have had previous heart conditions. Warfarin, plavix are other examples of meds that reduce these clotting factors, but with this also comes increased risks of bleeding disorders etc. Using fish oil and vit e arent supposedly as strong as meds for reducing clotting problems but also dont have the high risks of bleeding disorders as well. An explanation can also go deeper then this but then im getting over my head talking about it too.
  8. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Let's see if I get this -- fish oil and vitamin E reduce clotting factors in the blood? So the "heart healthy" factors are not BP reduction, but clot reduction?

    This sounds like we may be borderline on this clotting mechanism and maybe fish oil and vitamin E supplements won't ever be good for us.
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi sickofcfs, both fish oil and CoQ10 can be beneficial in ME/CFS. They are not without risks however. Just because something is natural, or essential to life, does not mean it cannot harm us under specific conditions.

    Fish oil is anti-inflammatory. It alters the production of hormones that regulate blood vessels and the immune system. It is also thought to reverse some of the neurological damage in ME/CFS, but we need a lot more research.

    CoQ10 is essential to energy production, but is also one of five antioxidants at the heart of the antioxident pentet: C, E, Lipoic Acid, Glutathione, CoQ10. To get real benefit from CoQ10 you should be addressing all five of these factors, and that should include at least looking at the methylation cycle (which influences glutathione).

    These supplements can really help by changing the physiology of ME/CFS. However if in an individual the physiological changes are too great or in the wrong direction, then both can also harm. There is no substitute for listening to you body.

    Keep in mind that supplements can help but might also push the physiology too far, creating stress in other biochemical pathways. So they are only a small solution in a larger puzzle, and we do not yet understand that larger puzzle.

    Bye
    Alex
  10. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Thanks, Alex.

    Done the methylation thing. :Retro smile: And we still take NAC.

    I agree that supplements (meds, too) have pluses and minuses. I'm trying to figure out if fish oil and CoQ10 have more pluses than minuses for my (and my daughter's) physiology. I'm coming to the conclusion that we have some special considerations that make fish oil inappropriate for us.

    Thanks, guys, for your input.
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    blood pressure is still a risk factor for heart disease, the higher the pressure the harder the heart has to work and it enlargers and gets the the stage that it cant pump efficiently, this is called cardiac failure, this is also where there is a back flow of fluid ends up in the lungs(congestive heart failure) and u have a nice crackly sound when u breath and u become very short of breath. Also high blood pressure is a risk factor for strokes as they can cause an aneursym in the blood vessels that can burst under high pressure. So for heart health we need good blood pressure and good cholesterol. Some supps dont directly help with cfs but help with our general health. CFS with say congestive heart failure would be a shocking way to live. I think with cfs we are probably more prone to alot more chronic diseases due to inactivity etc.

    cheers!!!
  12. lucy

    lucy Senior Member

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    Garlic lowers the blood pressure up to dizziness in some people (also me, the strongest effect lasts 15-60 min). I do not know about fish-oil thinning the blood or affecting BP, but I know omega -3 in the fish oil is supposed to reduce the inflammation by increasing the omega 3 to omega 6 ratio. Fish oil helped me a lot with palpitations (discovered accidentally). Q10 hasn't had any effect on me, tried also in the form of ubiquinone.
  13. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2009;30(4):470-6.

    Coenzyme Q10 deficiency in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) is related to fatigue, autonomic and neurocognitive symptoms and is another risk factor explaining the early mortality in ME/CFS due to cardiovascular disorder.

    Maes M, Mihaylova I, Kubera M, Uytterhoeven M, Vrydags N, Bosmans E.
    Maes Clinics, Antwerp, Belgium. crc.mh@telenet.be

    Abstract


    INTRODUCTION: Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) is a medical illness characterized by disorders in inflammatory and oxidative and nitrosative (IO&NS) pathways.
    METHODS: This paper examines the role of Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10), a mitochondrial nutrient which acts as an essential cofactor for the production of ATP in mitochondria and which displays significant antioxidant activities. Plasma CoQ10 has been assayed in 58 patients with ME/CFS and in 22 normal controls; the relationships between CoQ10 and the severity of ME/CFS as measured by means of the FibroFatigue (FF) scale were measured.
    RESULTS: Plasma CoQ10 was significantly (p=0.00001) lower in ME/CFS patients than in normal controls. Up to 44.8% of patients with ME/CFS had values beneath the lowest plasma CoQ10 value detected in the normal controls, i.e. 490 microg/L. In ME/CFS, there were significant and inverse relationships between CoQ10 and the total score on the FF scale, fatigue and autonomic symptoms. Patients with very low CoQ10 (<390 microg/L) suffered significantly more from concentration and memory disturbances.
    DISCUSSION: The results show that lowered levels of CoQ10 play a role in the pathophysiology of ME/CFS and that symptoms, such as fatigue, and autonomic and neurocognitive symptoms may be caused by CoQ10 depletion. Our results suggest that patients with ME/CFS would benefit from CoQ10 supplementation in order to normalize the low CoQ10 syndrome and the IO&NS disorders. The findings that lower CoQ10 is an independent predictor of chronic heart failure (CHF) and mortality due to CHF may explain previous reports that the mean age of ME/CFS patients dying from CHF is 25 years younger than the age of those dying from CHF in the general population. Since statins significantly decrease plasma CoQ10, ME/CFS should be regarded as a relative contraindication for treatment with statins without CoQ10 supplementation.
  14. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Thanks for that, CBS. As I thought, CoQ-10 could be a vital supplement for PWCs.

    I can get be comfortable with avoiding the fish oil, since it clearly has effects that are bad for us. The CoQ-10 is harder. It appears to be a very important supplement for PWCs, and I have yet to discover that it has properties that should cause bruising/bleeding issues.

    Taking a hard look at the particular CoQ-10 supplement we were using, I realize that it included vitamin E, which I believe could be the cause of the bruising/bleeding. I'm off to investigate, but welcome any thoughts on the subject.
  15. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I take a good brand of fish oil and CoQ10, both are very important for so many reasons. Fish oil for Inflammation, brain, skin, hair, blood vessels etc. CoQ10 is readily absorbed, wonderful antioxident we need for our heart and health.
  16. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    I take prescription Fish Oil, and was recently told to take CoQ10, I took it years ago, but didn't notice any effect, but I think I will take it again, even if I do not notice any benefit, my impression is that you will not necessarily feel something significant from CoQ10.

    GG

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