Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Taking PPI's (Proton Pump Inhibitors)

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Womble, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. Womble

    Womble Senior Member

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    I've had lots of trouble with PPI's in the past. I need to treat my acid reflux,
    and my doctor insists I take them.

    Now on Prilosec for just two days so far, it is making me exhausted and making my tremors worse.

    Any theories on why this reaction, and anyone else have experience with this?

    Womble
     
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  2. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Ahh, my pet hate, doctors prescribing PPI's without evidence of the need. I'll lay odds that you didn't get a pH manometry test to see if acid relux is the culprit. Low stomach acid causes the same symptoms as high stomach acid.

    If the PPI is causing adverse effects without helping reflux symptoms, my opinion is don't persist with it. Look at doing some of the low stomach acid home tests found on the web ortry the lesser evil of a H2 blocker. Better still, try D-limonene capsules, they stop the reflux symptoms for some people
     
  3. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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  4. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    PPIs have been a life saver for me. Serious persistent reflux is no picnic, and has some serious long term risks.

    But no doubt they are not for everybody either.
     
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  5. South

    South Senior Member

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    Seconding the suggestion for the D-limonene (also called simply "limonene") in supplements: some people experience full abatement of reflux problems with this supplement. It is made from citrus peel, filtered to remove other things from the citrus peel.

    The people I have heard from who have had limonene work for them had no side effects, unlike the many people who use PPIs or the H2 blockers - I've met LOTS of people who had side effects with those.
     
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  6. Jennifer J

    Jennifer J Senior Member

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    @Womble, thank you for your question. I hope something that the other members have shared will help you, and you'll feel better soon. Keep us posted, if you like and can.

    @kangaSue, @South and anyone else, a couple questions - I take H2 for my angioedema, doctor recommends PPI for stomach problems I'm having. I don't want to take PPI unless I really have to. I have many concerns with it and with the fact I've been on continuous H2's for 14 years. (I need to have an endoscopic exam done.)

    Do you know can I take D-limonene while taking my H2?

    If my stomach problems are related to low stomach acid from my H2 use, is there a problem doing whatever is written about on PR to increase stomach acids while staying on H2? Will that defeat the purpose of being on H2 to help with my angioedema?

    Thank you. (I hope this isn't hijacking Womble's thread by me asking this here since it's related. If you'd like me to start a new thread let me know.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
  7. South

    South Senior Member

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    Jennifer, like so many natural remedies, I doubt there exists yet a placebo-controlled human study showing the best sequence to follow with limonene (or with using HCL capsules, or any of the other non-prescription natural things that may help some people).

    So we are all left to guess and try things gradually when wondering how to try out natural ingredients like this.
     
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  8. Kathevans

    Kathevans Senior Member

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    I credit Zantac, taken usually at 1/2 dose at night for eight years as the straw that broke this camel's back. I'm sure that was more than enough to completely change my stomach flora. Around that time an infection on my foot made antibiotics necessary and, bam, within 6 months I has sores in my mouth (to which my doc said, "Gee, only people with AIDS have sores on their tongue like this...").

    I had a very hard time getting off the Zantac, but what finally worked--call me crazy--was beginning to chant with some local Buddhists. Maybe it relaxed my gut, or possibly stimulated it; it certainly made me feel better emotionally. Over the years, about a decade, actually, I worked on my gut with probiotics (which i didn't tolerate at all at first), then adding raw foods (ditto), adding a tablespoon of fresh-squeezed lemon juice to a bit of water and sipping with my meals (I haven't been able to tolerate Betaine) and now eating fermented sauerkraut daily.

    I still have gut issues, but that part of me is soooooooo much better.

    Good luck.

    And btw, put a wedge under your mattress so you're slanted slightly up; this helps with reflux. Oh, and I did try Prilosec for 1 day and it made me feel as if I couldn't burp. Very strange. As if my stomach was somehow frozen. Weird and uncomfortable. That did it for me. No thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
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  9. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    I'm sorry. I haven't had to take PPIs but I have been dealing with acid reflux. What *seems* to be working for me is a no fat diet (I noticed nuts and olive oil seemed to make mine worse so I cut out all fat). And combined with no fat, using a probiotic (currently Align). I was using just 1/2 to 1 ounce of plain non-fat Greek yogurt (FAGE) and that also helped....but it didn't help with some intestinal pain I was having. Which is why I tried Align, but I still have the intestinal pain, so I think I will need to see a GI doc as this has been going on for awhile. However, the heartburn seems to be much improved.
     
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  10. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    PPI's are overprescribed and typically used at too high strength/dose. When you take a standard PPI with standard dosage give, you will cut stomach acid production by something like 80-90%. This will cause mineral and vitamin deficiencies over time, as the stomach acid actually exists for a reason. Low stomach acid is probably the cause of the reaction you had, because PPI's have very low side effect profile (one reason why doctors prescribe them). Over time the body will increase acid production back through feedback loops to compensate for the med, which makes things somewhat better. Although it means when you try to quit the medication, your stomach will get even more acidic than normal until your body again re-adjusts.
     
  11. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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    Reflux related to fat consumption can often often be bile acid rather than stomach acid. Do you have any issues with your Gallbladder?
     
  12. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    Not that I know of.
     
  13. Womble

    Womble Senior Member

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    Wow. I am amazed but after being on a PPI called Prilosec for over a week, I have seen a dramatic improvement in my brain fog, being able to read and concentrate perhaps 4 times as much!

    The Prilosec does make me sleep for 4 hours, but I wake up feeling de-toxed and healthier.

    This is an amazing discovery, if it indicates that reducing stomach acid somehow benefits the gut or immune system.

    This must be investigated further!!!
     
  14. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    I remember reading that PPIs have anti-inflammatory effects, which is likely the reason behind any CFS/ME improvements. I have only read about bad effects from reducing stomach acid itself.
     
  15. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Yes, PPI's have quite a potent anti-inflammatory effect. I was on a high dose and just stopped it only to end up in the ER with severe gut pain 4 days later where I learned of the anti-inflammatory mechanism and the gut pain only completely resolved after a couple of days back on the PPI.
     
  16. frederic83

    frederic83 Senior Member

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    @Womble I don't think it is the PPI in itself that is anti-inflammatory, but its effect: it reduces the acidity in your stomach. As you may have virus in the lining of your stomach, with inflammation -> acid + inflammation is not good. So less acid is a good thing for some of us.
     
  17. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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  18. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    Less stomach acid is actually bad if you have an infection because the acid itself kills a number of bacteria. Those who take PPI long-term risk having more bacteria in their stomach. PPIs also increase the risk of pneumonia. From Wiki article:
    Also as I wrote earlier, the anti-inflammatory effects of PPIs have nothing to do with acid reduction (reference).
     
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  19. frederic83

    frederic83 Senior Member

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  20. Womble

    Womble Senior Member

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    Yes, this seems like an interesting theory.

    Perhaps the CFS/ME problems are related to a virus in the stomach.

    Or as others have suggested, just a general anti-inflammatory effect is going on which is beneficial.

    I stopped taking probiotics also, which may or may not be helping me as well, not sure.
     

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