The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
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Taking NAC to raise glutathione whilst working on other areas

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by douglasmich, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    Hi

    I can not tolerate a methylation regime and i am working on my severe gut issues first. However i was wondering if i could use NAC in the meantime to help out because i am sure my GSH is very very low.
     
  2. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    You could try NAC+glycine+glutamine to form glutathione. Or perhaps taking liposomal / IV GSH directly.
     
  3. PointsNorth

    PointsNorth Paulo

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    I would suggest that you use a good probiotic to tackle the gut issue. It has worked for me.
     
  4. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    There is also nebulized glutathione which I think many people may not know about. It has been helpful for me, I started it to detox mold but I ended up getting a significant improvement in my MCAS and allergic symptoms especially after most recent dose increase.

    ETA: From an MCAS perspective (which I realize only applies to a small few on PR) my specialist said not to take NAC and that it could trigger a reaction and that glutathione was better. Am not really sure why.
     
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  5. douglasmich

    douglasmich

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    i am scared to take NAC beacuse people on here say it cause methyltrap...
     
  6. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    @Gingergrrl, Where do you obtain nebulized glutathione?
    Has it helped any of the symptoms caused by fluoroquinolone poisoning?
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  7. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @Thinktank I am sure that there are multiple pharmacies where you can get it but I get it from Wellness Pharmacy in Birmingham, AL. I live on the west coast so they ship it to me overnight in a special cooler once the order is ready. It is prescribed by my mold doctor. Wellness Pharmacy has been phenomenal across the board and I wish they were local to me.

    I am not sure if it has helped any of my symptoms from being floxed since that happened in 2010. I truly believe if I had known about glutathione back then, it could have helped me but I didn't. But I really don't know as I have only been using it since the end of Oct (about four months) and I am just now built up to the dose that my doc recommended.

    I am in the process of ordering my new batch to be shipped at this higher dose so if I continue with it for another 3-4 months, I am hoping to see even more improvement. I am going to re-test my levels of histamine, prostaglandins, TGF-b1 and other inflammation markers to see if they have decreased since using the glutathione. I had hoped to do these tests in March but now with some other appts coming up, they may have to wait a little longer.
     
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  8. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    @douglasmich, That will depend on what is giving you chronic g.i. dysfunction. I'm non ME/CFS but am down to tolerating very little of anything in the way foods or supplements with severe g.i. dysfunction and both NAC and L-Glutamine are particularly noxious to my system, either orally or by tube feeding to bypass the stomach.

    I figured it was due to low GSH and the antioxidant system not working so my G.I. ran a glutathione peroxidase serum and red blood cell test which came back as high normal. I'm a bit foggy on what it means but got the impression it meant that GSH is at a functional level. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong
     
  9. MAF14

    MAF14 Senior Member

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    Freddd I believe is the one who started saying this (or that anything that produces glutathione depletes methylators) based on that HIS urine was "more" yellow when he took these.It was pointed out to me, by @caledonia I believe, that this isn't supported anywhere by literature that's around.

    As much respect as I have for Freddd, I've begun taking glutamine and NAC again.
     
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  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    The Andrew Cutler people say that glutathione is a thiol and mercury toxic people can have issues with thiols. Note that the thiol issue is also a CBS problem. NAC can also cause the same.

    Freddd has a lot of mercury exposure in his history.

    Cutler suggests glutamine and glycine* instead of NAC or glutathione. These are precursors to glutathione which don't contain thiols.

    *I'm saying glutamine and glycine from memory. I'm pretty sure that's correct, but not totally. If you want to try these, please double check on this to make sure it's right.
     
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

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    There are two kinds of glutathione - oxidized and reduced. The only test I know of which measures both separately is the HDRI Methylation Panel.

    The normal thing is to have a lot of reduced glutathione and a little oxidized. Mine is reversed - a lot of oxidized and a little reduced. If you take a combined test (the most commonly available test), the results will look like you have a normal amount of glutathione in either case.

    I would expect most people on this forum to have a reversed glutathione ratio.

    According to Andrew Cutler, vitamin C is helpful to recycle the oxidized glutathione back into the good reduced variety.

    As far as the gut, you'll need do something like the 4R Gut Rebuilding program - see my signature link. It sounds like you have leaky gut which is generally caused by a candida overgrowth.

    Note that mercury toxicity can cause this condition, as well as taking antibiotics without taking probiotics to restore gut bacteria balance.
     
  12. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I think intestinal permeability is the be all and end all of my problem but it's not from a candida overgrowth, it's because of intestinal ischemia (Non-occlusive Mesenteric Ischemia) which has compromised the mucosal barrier in the bowel from the transverse colon to god knows where as the last colonoscopy in 2013 was aborted at that point when the scope perforated the bowel and everything worsened from then on.

    It's looking to be autoimmune related, currently waiting on test results to see if it's Sjogren's, Scleroderma or Autoimmune Autonomic Ganglionopathy. Supplements and elimination just doesn't cut it for me, not even Vitamin C.
     
  13. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I'm sorry to hear you have this condition - you're right, it doesn't look like a 4R program would be helpful in this case. I hope you can find the ultimate cause and get proper treatment, and this helps.
     
  14. Hines

    Hines

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    Is there somebody who takes Glutathin? If there is at least somebody, could you let me know about it please so we could talk? I would really want to talk with somebody who uses it. Thank you
     
  15. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I take nebulized glutathione and it seems to help my MCAS reactions (and when I missed one day, they greatly flared up.) I started it as a treatment to detox after severe mold exposure. I also eat oats and apple pectin as a binder along with the glutathione. Have also tried transdermal (skin) glutathione. I cannot take the liquid form b/c they all contain preservatives that I cannot tolerate. Hope this helps!
     
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  16. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Hi @Gingergrrl, I'm really interested in the Nebulized Glutathione that you've mentioned across this forum. I'm glad it's helping you. I too am trying to detox mold. I have been doing the Brewer Protocol for 1 year without improvement and recently started systemic antifungals as my doctor thinks the mold could be colonized in my lungs as well as my sinuses. I don't have any MCS (or mold sensitivities per say), just CFS with confirmed mycotoxins from RealTime Lab. I have a few questions:

    1.)What is the usual dosage or dosage you use for nebulized glutathione? (I can't get a price from a pharmacy without it nor would my doctor know what dose to prescribe.) From what I can tell online, the dosage varies for MCS, Parkinson's, COPD, emphysema, etc.
    2.) How often do you do it? Daily I presume.
    3.) How long have you been on it?
    4.) Has it helped your mold exposure? Did your MCS start with your mold exposure?
    5.) Do you think it's helping raise your overall glutathione levels?

    Thank you very much if you could answer some of my questions.

    PS: Key Pharmacy in Washington State and McGruff Compounding Pharmacy in California also do nebulized glutathione, so if you're on the West Coast, the shipping costs may be lower for you than from Alabama.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
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  17. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @junkcrap50 Thanks and I found the nebulized glutathione to be helpful. I did it from approx end of Oct 2015 to March 2016. I did not stop b/c of any bad effects but b/c I had to travel to see a doctor and it was too difficult to bring all the supplies (the glutathione has to be refrigerated) and then we had a flood in my apt and I never got back to it. I did it with very mild mold binders that I could tolerate like oats and apple pectin. I do have MCAS but if you do not, you could probably tolerate the normal mold binders like activated charcoal, Bentonite Clay or even CSM which I could not.

    Will try my best to answer all these..

    1) I believe I started at 200 (mg?) and it was too high so we reduced it to 100 mg and then built back up to 200 mg and then I ultimately built up to 400 mg. I would have to go back and review my notes to confirm though. Wellness Pharm was able to give me the exact prices for the Glutathione, the syringes, the saline, the shipping, and anything I needed.

    They switched from plastic to glass vials which is why it came with syringes to draw up the product for the nebulizer (but you are NOT injecting anything into your skin). My mold doctor advised me as to which dose to try and we had several phone consults throughout the process. I had my first dose at my MCAS doctor's office at the hospital b/c there was a tiny risk of bronchospasm which I did not have with the later exception of one batch which the pharmacy let me exchange for a full refund and it never happened again.

    ETA: My mold doctor wrote the prescription and this is not an OTC product like the glutathione pills or liquid form.

    2) I did it once a day but toward the end when we increased the dose, I very briefly did it 2x/day.

    3) I do not do it anymore but did it for approx 5-6 months.

    4) I am not really certain if I have MCS or if I sometimes get MCS reactions as part of my MCAS. But yes, my MCAS started after significant mold exposure in our prior rental. We no longer live there (moved in Sept 2015) and had to get rid of all of our belongings due to the high levels of mold but that is another story.

    5) I assume that it raised my overall glutathione levels but was never tested for this (before or after) so I really do not know. My mold doctor very much wanted me to the the NutrEval test which I was not opposed to but honestly just never got around to it with everything else going on at that time. I still have the box so may do it some day.

    No problem and happy to help if I can.

    My mold doctor said that the only two pharmacies she endorses for nebulized glutathione are Key and Wellness. I called Key and they would not disclose all of the ingredients to me and said certain things were a "proprietary formula" versus Wellness actually faxed me a list with all of their products and full ingredients and b/c of my MCAS, it was the safer choice. Forgot to mention, I also used the transdermal glutathione skin cream from Wellness in the plain Emu Oil base and was not allergic to it. This also had to be kept in fridge. Am not certain if there was any benefit from the skin cream but figured that it could not hurt.

    Hope this helps!
     
  18. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Awesome! Thanks @Gingergrrl for a such a great response. This helps a lot!
     
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  19. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    No problem and hope it goes well with the glutathione!
     
  20. Jimbo39

    Jimbo39 Senior Member

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    Sorry I'm new. What's a methyl trap? Sounds ominous.

    What does floxed mean?

    Yikes! I was scheduled for a colonoscopy Friday but I chickened out. Is this a rarity?

    Anyway, I take NAC. I guess the consensus is to take glutathione?
     

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