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Taking Alpha lipoic acid supplement & feel awful, what do I do?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by E-Beth, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. E-Beth

    E-Beth

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    Hi all,
    I'm pretty new to Phoenix Rising and have been trying to read through the various forums on methylation to find a soln to my problem but I can't understand all of the info.

    I've been taking BioCeuticals 'Cardio Nutrients' for about 2 weeks now, 2 tabs a day, usually in the morning.

    Each tablet contains coenzyme Q10 75mg, R, S-alpha Lipoic acid 75mg, magnesium (as orotate 500mg) 32mg and d-alpha-Tocopherol (equiv. vit E 5IU) 3.36mg.

    The problem: I've been having less and less energy. Muscles feel tired and heavy. Can't concentrate much. Heaps more time spent lying in bed.

    What should I do?
  2. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    All of these produce ATP,right?
    Maybe it is ATP startup and will take a while for your body to adapt?
    You can try by reducing your dosage and slowly increasing it?

    There's a thread on ATP in this forum. I don't know whether it will help you or not, but here it is:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/atp.11257/
  3. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi E-Beth;

    ALA has helped so many people with a need for chelation, glutathione production, lowering of blood sugar , relief of neuropathy, etc.

    I've tried it many times, but found it to be irritating to my nerves, causing pain.( It's acidic) I didn't find it to increase fatigue, though.

    I understand that with any chelating substance, there's a chance that necessary minerals, etc. may also end up being lost, and need replacement.
  4. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi,

    I don't know if this is what is causing the problem for you but ALA has a short half-life and if you don't take it about every 4 hours, it is likely to "drop" its load of mercury or heavy metals someplace worse than where is picked them up. ALA can be taken separately if you don't want to take the others that often.

    Check out Dr. Andy Cutler's protocol for ALA--he is about the most respected on this therapy.

    Sushi
  5. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Yes indeed, when I first start re-distributing mercury some of the first symptoms I developed included very "heavy" and weak arms. There was a very rapid onset. The severe brain fog would follow. This cause marked problems with cognition to such an extent that I would often get confused about where I was, and I couldn't hold any thoughts without repeating them dozens of times. Fatigue followed these symptoms, but the fatigue was probably delayed because of my mitochondrial density, attributable to my fitness level.

    While most people don't have close to the toxicity that I did, the chemical properties of ALA have the same effect on everyone. If someone has a body burden of mercury, ALA, taken intermittently, will concentrate that Hg in the target tissues...those being the fat-dense brain (pituitary/hypothalamus), liver, thyroid, etc. No one on this forum should be taking Alpha Lipoic Acid unless the half-life is observed. (Every 3 hours is reasonable) Even then, there are some negative reports of R-LA, so ALA would be the appropriate form of lipoic acid. For those who have taken LA with no obvious adverse effect after 4-5 months or longer, I think it is safe to say your toxicity is minimal, but the effect still would have been to concentrate some Hg in those target organs. Unfortunately once the mercury crosses the BBB it will not be escorted out of the brain again, unless one properly chelates.
    Johnmac likes this.
  6. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    ALA has been wonderful for me. You could just try the supplements one at a time.
  7. Johnmac

    Johnmac

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    Agree with Sushi. All these are mercury symptoms. ALA taken improperly (more than 3 hours apart around the clock) will produce exactly these symptoms if you are mercury toxic. This is in the literature, plus it's been my experience on taking ALA improperly. (I slept 18 hours a day, and couldn't find my way out of the bathroom. My favourite memory is standing in a bank staring at a sign which said, 'Please take a ticket', and trying to work out what it meant.)

    You need to stop the ALA.

    If you want to chelate out the mercury you'd need to remove all amalgam fillings, then after 3 months you could begin chelation (with ALA, but sometimes beginning with DMSA or DMPS) - on a proper protocol.

    Cutler protocol is the one I use, and seems to have the best science behind it.
  8. tittiger

    tittiger

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  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm not recommending this, but I took 1200 mg Alpha Lipoic Acid a day (divided into 2 doses) with my amalgams for over a year without any problems. It wasn't until one of my amalgams were removed (most likely improperly I hasten to add) that I started problems.
    Rolo likes this.
  10. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I've been taking ALA for years and always feel better when taking it. I've had 1 serum test, 1 urine test and 1 DMSA provoked urine test and my mercury is always the same, even though I have several filligs. I was worried about taking DMSA and ALA, but Richvank and my intergrative doctor both told that is impossible for for DMSA or ALA to pull mercury from a filling. They both only have the capability of removing mercury that has already been methylated in the body.
    Everybody needs to do what they feel is the right thing to do, if you don't yo will always be doubting yourself. Everytime I think about how good I used to feel, it just makes me even more mad at the way I feel now. The only thing we have gotten from research is a bunch of bandaid try this until that bandaid falls off and they hand you another bandaid. It seems as if science is just playing "Musical Chairs" with our research and only one or two of the mean anything to start with.
    We need to send that video of when Obama told Bob Miller and that group that he was going to help, cause I sure haven't seen it!
  11. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    You think mercury leeched into your tissues when the amalgam was removed? Still with the source generator gone, your body should be able to slowing unwind that mercury burst. Contrary to popular belief the body has some natural mechanisms to remove mercury UNLESS they are impaired by something at an epigenetic level or by possibly other supplements.

    I admit mercury toxicity is largely outside my knowledge-base but I though persistent sources with amalgams, industrial exposure, or diet intake were the real worries. Are you sure the dentist cleaned out everything? Heck if you really think the left-over is the problem I would go to another dentist and contemplating pulling the tooth. The exposure is not worth the tooth if that is somehow indeed the case.
  12. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    All I know is that I got significantly worse after my amalgam was removed. My tooth was cracked so the entire tooth was removed, but the crack was so deep that my dentist first removed the front part of the tooth then the amalgam and then the back part. Actually, I don't know whether my amalgam was removed improperly or not. I'm just basing it on how I feel. There's another thread discussing removal of amalgam fillings. Some people have reported improvement after getting them removed, but others have said it didn't make any difference.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/removal-of-mercury-amalgam-fillings.4936/

    Also interesting was one of Rich's articles where he says that mercury doesn't necessarily cause CFS, but people who already have CFS are hypersensitive to mercury exposure.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/documents-by-rich-van-konynenburg-parts-1-7.11488/
  13. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    It would seem that Methylation with Mercury would give you something close to methylmercury, which I believe is very toxic and deadly! But obviously it does not, otherwise some of us would be dead.

    GG

    PS How long have you been ill?
  14. Johnmac

    Johnmac

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    Some people can use ALA twice a day and get away with it (some can't).

    Some people can use ALA with amalgams in (some can't).

    Some people get very sick after improper amalgam removal (some don't).

    Some people notice (often large) health gains after correct amalgam removal (some don't).

    If you are getting significantly worse after amalgam removal, that suggests the removal was improper (no masks, oxygen, etc etc).

    That would mean a lot more mercury circulating in your body than before.

    If you are chelating improperly with ALA - something you could get away with before - and are having bad effects, that's likely the ALA redistributing the new, larger body burden of mercury. Redistribution can be pretty awful.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    First, consider not using a combined supplement, take them separately if you can.That way you can individually titrate doses.

    Second, don't consume alpha tocopherol. Its a very bad choice in vitamin E. Mixed tocopherols or gamma tocopherol are better, with much higher absorption and utilization.

    Q10, ALA and E work together, but two of the antioxidant pentet are missing. They are vitamin C and glutathione (NAC, methylation, liposomal GSH etc.). These five work together.

    These can indeed make you sick just by working. What is your diet like? In particular what foods containing fat do you eat, and what kinds of fats? Is diet high protein, high carb, balanced, etc?
  16. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    No arguments from me. I am just concerned that an a procedure was performed to REMOVE an amalgam and you got significantly worse. If I were you I would get a 2nd opinion from another dentist and see if the first one really did remove everything. It is not inconceivable that part was removed but somehow exposed a surface that is now leeching mercury into your tissues.
    Victronix likes this.
  17. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    Methylation is fundamental to genetic transcription, cellular function, neurotransmitter function, etc.
    If normal methylation output and exposure to small amounts of mercury led to high levels of toxicity then the human race would have never made it very far. Contrary to popular belief the body has natural mechanisms (albeit slow and sometime compromised) to remove and excrete mercury. Chelation is more appropriate for people who have built up high mercury levels due to high exposure levels or broken detox pathways or compromised liver status or continual chronic low exposures.
    Victronix likes this.
  18. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    The entire tooth was removed so I'm not sure how there could be anything left of the amalgam. There wasn't a special procedure done to remove the amalgam. The crack on my tooth was so deep that everything had to be removed. I was already having problems before the amalgam was removed so I think the reason that I got significantly worse was because my body was already in a weakened state.
  19. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Well I am sure all the advice above applies to some people but I can tell you MY experience with ALA...I can NOT tolerate it. It lowers my blood sugar so much that I have serious repeat low blood sugar attacks (like 3/day). I can tolerate some but not much. I am hypoglycemic but normally do not suffer issues as long as I take my DHEA. Come to think of it, I have not tried ALA since I started taking DHEA so might be able to take it now. Thing is, it was such a horrible reaction for me that I am not anxious to try it again.
  20. Johnmac

    Johnmac

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    Mercury migrates from tooth-fillings, vaccines, etc to fatty tissue - and thus has a particular liking for the brain.

    Alpha lipoic acid chelates this mercury out of the brain - probably the only agent that can do so. When someone with a certain brain-mercury load takes ALA improperly, it causes mercury to redistribute from the brain, which can cause symptoms very much like the ones you describe.

    For mercury-toxic people, the proper way to take ALA is every three hours (its half-life) around the clock, beginning carefully with very low doses. (75mg is way too much.) This is the Cutler protocol, and will prevent extreme side-effects like those you have - because it moves the mercury out smoothly, rather than dragging it, then beginning to drop it once the half-life ends.

    I took ALA 'episodically' once, and the result was tired muscles and total fatigue; I couldn't find my way around my own bathroom. Since then I have taken it perhaps 40 times in 3-10-day rounds, round the clock, and have only had mild sfx if any.

    If you want to try this method, you need to buy the Cutler book and make sure you understand the protocol before beginning it. Chelation (which is probably what you've unwittingly been doing) very effective when done properly, but can cause long-term harm when done the wrong way.

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