Lipkin's Monster ME/CFS Study: Microbes, Immunity & Big Data
The Microbe Discovery Project outlines an ambitious new study by top researchers that has collected patient samples, but needs desperately funds to complete the work.
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T-cell exhaustion, infection and autoimmune disease NEW research

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by natasa778, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150629110803.htm

    full paper http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14468.html

     
    AaroninOregon, Effi, mango and 11 others like this.
  2. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

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    As a CFS hypothesis, this is the frontrunner, I'd say.
     
  3. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Which hypothesis though? Autoimmunity or infection? Or both? I think it is interesting that the CD-8 T-cell exhaustion was associated with a poorer prognosis in chronic infection, but a better one in autoimmunity. It's also interesting that this was observed in Hepatitis C infection, as the disease progression seen with Hepatitis C was one of the reasons why the Lipkin paper divided the patients into those who had been ill for less/more than 3 years.
     
  4. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    This is obviously happening in long-term ME but the question is what is driving it.
     
  5. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I think the chronic infection/the reaction to that infection. I do not know what exactly goes wrong but I am pretty sure it starts early in the disease proces. Levamisole which helps me a lot made the difference between live and dead in young animals during the acute infection.
     
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Could we call low nk function or even low cd8 function, some type of immune exhaustion, even though numbers are within normal range?
     
  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    If they do not work well one might but only untill more is known. Exhaustion is such a general term.
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Agree.

    i wonder if by some fluke someone has had an nk function test done and later developed cfsme. Its very possible as many studies on nk function compare cfs vs healthy controls.

    it would be interesting to know if the low nk function developed over time or a predisposing factor in getting cfsme. If its developed over time, maybe the 6 months needed before a cfs diagnosis , than a type of immune exhaustion??
     
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  9. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    An observation in my own case, CD8 etc all normal within normal range (unfortunately never had an NK function test) no immune reaction to flu, etc for the first 11yrs, then retested and everything is way below range and now I feel 'viral' 90% of time. I feel as though I am constantly fighting something for the last 13yrs. Something changed for sure.
     
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Does @Jonathan Edwards think that this study makes sense and/or that it may have relevance for us?
     
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  11. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    It would be REALLY interesting to see if this could any way be related to that 3-year immune shift in ME patients that Lipkin and Hornig have observed.
     
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  12. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Alone & Wandering

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    Viral persistance resulting in immune exhaustion.
     
  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    The findings seem to me very obscure. There does not seem to be any suggestion that T cell exhaustion is part of the cause of autoimmunity - the more patients showed it the less bad their disease it seems. It is a very odd selection of autoimmune diseases too. I rather get the impression that they checked a whole lot of genes for expression in a rather motley collection of patients, found correlations with something once they had looked hard enough and tried to make a story out of it. The press release seems off target.

    In other words I cannot make sense of it.
     
  14. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I have been the opposite with high cd t cell subsets, nk cd56 in normal range and nk cd3 above range. My nk function was very low, nk bright cells low and nk dim cells normal.

    what does it mean?? My dr just says it looks like im fighting some infection.
     
  15. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    @heapsreal I seem to recall the doctor telling me that a high CD4/CD8 ratio was due to a viral infection. Mine was/is high.

    My CD56 is the only one in normal range.
     
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  16. Simon

    Simon

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    I thought that was the point of the paper:
    ie those with T cell exhaustion early in their illness had better long-term outcomes than those without. It's still only an association, but the fact that T cell exhaustion comes first surely indicates it could have a causal role.

    I also thought this was interesting as it implies T cell exhaustion (and treating it) has a clinically important role in other illnesses
    Though I worry about the reference to 'multi-billion dollar industry', which sounds like dollar signs appearing in researchers' eyes - not necessarily the right focus.
    At least they are testing the approach. Always a useful reality check for a theory built on associations.
    Oh, and it all focuses on T cells in humans, rather than mice, which I thought you might like :).


    Though it does appear they selected diseases on the basis of having the right type of data for their analysis, rather than the right 'result' from their perspective:
     
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