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swollen/sore lymph nodes

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by Jody, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Help for lymph nodes

    I posted something about this elsewhere (have no idea where, now). :D

    I have used a cream by Genestra called Lymphagen, all herbs, which helps the poor ol' lymph system keep things moving.

    I've used it on my neck and behind ears, where I have had frequent swollen glands and nodes. It begins to work right away. Smells good, isn't greasy or oily.

    My husband used it on a grotesquely swollen elbow, (in conjunction with acupuncture) and the results were amazing.

    My son (also a chronic) has used it on what was a hard seemingly permanent lump on his jaw. It had looked like a blind pimple but became huge, rocklike, and frightening. Used it and within a day, the hard rock softened to a horrible looking bag on his face and within days, came to three white heads, and over a few more days that baby started to drain. Also had some acupuncture which speeded it up, but the Lymphagen was the main catalyst. Within a week or so, the lump was gone. He uses it on other areas on face and neck as he is prone to this stuff.

    Works like a dream.
  2. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Dr. Perrin and Lymph

    (Added this post from Mike Dessin Conversation)

    Interesting that the lymphatic system has entered into the discussion. I got to talk to Dr. Perrin, an UK osteopath - and author of The Perrin Technique - at the IACFS/ME conference. I got a little interview with him but then ME/CFS patient that I am, I lost my tape deck. He struck me as a very nice guy though.

    Anyway he believes the lymphatic system plays a key role in this disease - that poor circulation impairs the flow of toxins out of the brain into the body where should be properly disposed of. He's identified various signs of lymphatic engorgement in ME/CFS patients. One is a tender point in the chest area that he believes signifies ME/CFS (which I did actually have). He does osteopathic manipulations and lymphatic massage to get the lymph flowing again. He's been doing this for quite a while - at least 10 years I believe.

    There are manipulations that can be done at home I believe. He has a book out
    http://www.amazon.com/Perrin-Techniq...8365304&sr=8-1

    and DVD's and courses you can take on his website.

    http://www.theperrinclinic.com/about.asp
    __________________
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Cort,

    I think most of us come bang up against the lymph system as we work with different protocols. This is very interesting about poor circulation impairing the flow of toxins out of the brain.

    Is there any way you can describe for us exactly where the tender point in the chest area is? This might be a significant marker for us.

    Thanks,
    Sushi
  4. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Help! Swollen lymph nodes and infection

    I know this is a common symptom for us but I am having alot of issues lately. The last few days my lymph nodes in my neck have been more swollen than usual (mostly left), a migrain on my left side, left shoulder and neck hurting badly and my face and neck feel very hot to the touch.

    The night before last I woke up in the middle of the night and was hit with extream dizzies. Everything was spinning so fast I couln't stand. I tryed to make my kids lunch that morning but ended up vomiting and going back to bed for the rest of the day. I missed a very important meeting at the school regarding my son.

    The dizziness seems to have gone but think I have an infection as my neck and face do not feel right. It seems whenever I get sick I have to fight infections in the lymph areas of my neck. I have been on antibiotics for a few months so don't know what the doctor could do about it. Does anyone else have this problem? Are there any natural ways to deal with swollen lymph nodes and infection?
  5. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Hi Frickly

    There are a few things you can try.

    I use a cream called Lymphagen, that helps get the lymph moving and break up the traffic jams in the nodes. Can get in the states I believe. It is by a company called Genestra. Here in Canada it's about $20 for a little jar, lasts a long time. Very gentle but powerful, has been my experience. Also has helped husband Al and son Jesse, each of us with different problems but all lymph related.

    There are antibacterial and antiviral things you can take without antibiotics. Can't remember offhand, sorry (I have bad vertigo, dizziness and brain fog myself today too) but google something like antibacterial - antiviral - alternative or something along those lines.

    Could also try tapping, EFT style, basically you're hitting acupressure points and that might help. There are people on the forums familiar with EFT who use it.

    Dry skin brushing might also help. I use a dry natural loofah, but what you use might not matter if you don't have one. You would brush gently, down in the direction of your heart. Go all around the neck, brushing downward, maybe continue with shoulders, chest, always brushing in the direction of the heart -- there's an exit in that area for the lymph, goes into the bloodstream and the body eventually gets rid of it.

    That's all I can think of right now. Beyond that, try to rest.
  6. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Jody

    I havn't forgotten about the lymph cream but couldn't find it in the stores here. I guess I will have to order it online. I didn't think about it preventing infection but now that I am using my brain, that makes sense. I am going to try the massaging. I wonder if just some lotion and massaging that lymph area down towards the heart would help. My neck is very sore and either infection has set in or is about to. I'm ordering that cream tomorrow.

    I do not know anything about EFT but sounds interesting. I will have to look into that when I have more time. A big storm is coming and I can feel it. Yuck.....
  7. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Frickly,

    Massaging with anything will probably help somewhat. Use whatever you have at hand.


    Mike Dessin knows more about this stuff too I believe. We may have threads about lymph.

    We do have threads about EFT. Lisa uses it, some other people too, don't want to venture a name and have it be the wrong one. But we do have EFT threads. You can google it too, there's lots of stuff about it online.

    If you feel too crappy just take the simplest version of it for now, find out which points to tap, and do that. If you have alot of this stuff happening to you with your lymph, you might want to look into it when you're feeling better.

    EFT is not so much designed for lymph but it can help anyway.

    Good luck. Let me know how it goes.
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Frickly,

    I am certainly not qualified to make the following statement, but......

    If you have been on antibiotics for a "few months" & there is still infection, I would suggest that the antibiotics are not working & to stop taking them. The more antibiotics you take, the more bacteria build up a resistence, and then when you have a really severe life threatening infection, antibiotics will be totally useless.

    That's purely my opinion - I am not medically qualified.

    Does your Doctor still want you to keep taking the antibiotics?

    A lymphatic drainage massage by a suitably qualified therapist would certainly be helpful. Keeping in mind that after a therapeutic massage of any kind, this will stir things up & you might feel a bit worse (before you feel better) - same goes for acupuncture.

    In fact, acupuncture might also help too. I have to admit, I prefer Chinese acupuncturists in general (as opposed to Western acupuncturists). I have used several different acupuncturists in the last 20 years or so & except for one Australian, I think Chinese acupuncturists are better. They seem to have some sort of instinctual knowledge.

    I would also consider a high dose of vitamin C (take with food) - as much as your bowels can tolerate. Vitamin C is probably the only vitamin which you cannot overdose on.

    The kidneys excrete any excess that the body doesn't use.

    I take 2000-3000 mg a day & my immune system is excellent since increasing my dose this year. You could take up to 10,000mg (or should I say start with 1000mg & build it up slowly. If you start getting diarrhea, drop the dose a bit).

    But don't be afraid to take several thousand milligrams (even if the bottle says 500mg or 1000mg per day).

    The herb Echinacea is also excellent for the immune system & fighting off infections. It is best used for 1 month on (& 1 month off). I don't know why, but that is the recommended course of action, so they say.

    Victoria
  9. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Jody and Victoria,

    Jody, thanks.

    Lisa! Help!

    Victoria, I am on antibiotics for a mycoplasmal infection but the fact that my antibiotics may no longer be doing their job was also my first thought. I will discuss this with my doctor at my next visit. Thanks for the suggestion regarding lymphatic drainage. I do think this could help me and will see if I can find someone. This lymph node thing has been going on for years but in the last few months it is starting to cause more problems then just pain. I also take vitamin C but will take your advice and up the dose. My kids are back in school so I will be exposed to all kinds of new germs.

    Thanks all, for all your help.

    Take care,
  10. Lisa

    Lisa Senior Member

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    Hi Frickly. :)

    I'm going to give this a shot in explaining what works for me and my swollen lymphs but just a warning - it might not all make sense tonight. I've had to completely stop all supplements in preparation of some testing starting tomorrow and going through to next tuesday so I might not make all the sense I think I am. :)

    Ok!
    First, pop some echinachea and astragulus root. (spelling might not be right) I take the recommened dosage on the bottle and use the nature's way brand. I think its like two caps a couple times a day of each. As long as you start them by dinner time, make sure to get in two doses of each that day. If you start earlier then you can probably fit in a third dose, i'd go with 4 hours apart minimum and should be fine. Just stick to total listed in a day on the bottle. :)

    Next, if you have some zinc around or can get some - take about 15mg is what I supplement when getting ill in addition to what's in my multivitamin. I use Optizinc becaue it comes with copper too so that you don't have to worry about the zinc pulling the copper out of your system. This is a good immune booster.

    Victoria nailed it with the Vitamin C. 1000 mg every 30 min can titrate you up pretty fast. you can also do it every hour instead. During the spring when I have massive allergies, I end up taking easily 18k mgs in a day at least so don't let the amount freak you out too much. I find it works incredibly better if you have a powdered form to take instead of tablet. I'll often pop capsules open to do this. Make sure to rinse your mouth well afterward due to the acidity. If you start getting nauseous then you will want to slow down to Vit C every couple hours. I find the nausea is a precursor to being full up on Vit C and you know you've had to much if you get the runs. Which sucks because then you still have all this Vit C in you that can keep you running for a hour or two until it is lowered in you. But never had that problem if I backed off when I started getting nauseous. Also, keep drinking water with this much C. :)

    Acidolphulus. (sp is all wrong, sorry) My doc said to take a handful when feeling some bug coming on. It out competes the bug for room in your mucus membrane areas - nasal, lungs, etc and if taken early enough can make a huge difference with the zinc and C. I tend to take about 6-8x's of what I normally would take in a day - twice in the first day.

    If you don't feel like you have a bug (can't remember) but just have the swollen lymphs, go for the echinacea and the astragulus - they seem to help clear it a bit.

    Biggest help I've found this last month when I was having problems - about a 20-30 minute gentle walk. I take a walking stick so that it helps my balance and the movement with it in my hand keeps that hand from swelling on me. Swap hands and I'm all good. :) But this has done the most relief right away that lasted the longest. Some gentle stretching of my shoulders and neck afterward when I'm warmed up from the walk make it help that much better. Stretch with shoulder rolls, go towards front then reverse and go towards back. Then windmill your arms in a slow fashion forwards and backwards. Neck is first head forwards, backwards. Then tilt it left, tilt it right. Then look over your shoulder left, look over your shoulder right. Then do a half circle neck roll from head tilt towards left and roll it down in front of you and back up to the other side. Reverse and repeat. All of these I do five reps each and don't strain in any movement, just do what feels good only.

    EFT. Not entirely sure about this because in me it tends to stimulate detox and can swell my glands, but things do seem to keep moving pretty well at that point and is worth a shot. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i33V2EcVlY&feature=channel_page This link takes you to Magnus, a dude teaching EFT basics. He's cool because he has you do it along with him and pauses for you to say it so you don't have to speak over him. After you get the hang of EFT you can shorten this up, but for a quick starter this can get you going. One thing though, he forgets this part. Ok, say you are angry at your cat for whatever reason. The first round of tapping you say "Even though feel angry at the cat, I deeply and completely respect myself." What he forgets on this video is that after that, when you tap on the exact same memory/emotion you say "Even though I have remaining anger, I deeply and completely respect myself." Its the Remaining part that is important.

    So for example. He has you saying "This Feeling" (you can say this feeling or insert anger, just keep the feeling in your thoughts for sure) then later you would say "This Remaining Feeling." Sorry if this is all a little confusing, it makes sense the more you do it. :) One reason I liked his stuff. It was easy to do, easy to learn and his version seemed to work about as well as most. :)

    You could focus on "Even though I have this ache" or "Even though there is swelling in my lymphs." Things like that could direct your energies to address that spot. Personally, I haven't had a lot of help with the physical healing part of this yet though. hehe If there is something bothering you though, maybe something someone did recently or a past thing that keeps popping into your head, try working on that. Might be that it is locking you up some and making your system not work right. And follow where the EFT takes you. By that I mean, I'll start out with something that seems like it only bugs me a bit and just happened that day. Then next the thought pops in my head that it might also have X other feeling involved. so I tap on that one. Then as that doesn't bug me I realize that maybe it's from this other thing that happened 10 years ago and tap on that emotion. Sort of like peeling back the layers of what the actual problem is.

    Anyways, that's how I go about EFT. :) I'm sure a practitioner of it would be much quicker at finding the root cause of things, but I'm learning as I go and it seems that often times I just can't see the root cause because everything else is obscuring it. And be ready for it to take some time. Start with Magnus' 20 min video. Rewind it and repeat if you need to. And if you start feeling overly drained (tired) or like you're system has a buzz going on in it, that's a good time to be done even if you don't seem to have gotten everything you wanted to tap. I find that if I ignore those warning signs, I get major detox and don't feel well at all for the rest of the day. Also, try not to do too big of a thing bugging you till you get the hang of it pretty good. And allow a lot of time when you do try to tap something major, there can be a lot of extra tapping as you follow all the roots of the problem. Last, I tend to be a bit more emotional for a day or two if I tap something really big. Small stuff, just makes me feel a lot better. Really relaxes me.

    I've probably lost you some where in all this, but keep coming back to it later and it might make more sense after you've done a little EFT yourself. :)

    But remember! Echanacea and astragulus! They help tons. :)

    Lisa :)

    nearly forgot. Rinse your nostrils with a saline/baking soda solution. Jody has mention a turkey baster for this, never tried that but you can also get this plastic bottle thing from almost any drug store. Some even come with premade salt packs if you are so inclined. There are also neti pots you can pick up too. I make my own solution. What works for me is 1.5 tsp salt (non idiozed. I use sea salt) and .25 tsp baking soda. Can adjust the baking soda based on if the solution burns. If it burns tooo much add more soda. Use water that feels comfortably warm on you inner wrist. The above amounts are for about 20oz water.

    I find this relieves some of the burden on my lymphs somehow.
  11. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member

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    Lisa,

    Lisa,
    Thanks for your detailed reply. You have all given me some good ideas. I will check out that video as it sounds interesting. Turns out my son felt dizzy this morning and had a fever and stomach ache. I guess we have a bug. Everytime I get sick I have lots of problems with lymph area. I will have to get together all of your suggestions above so that it is ready to use when I need it.
  12. Frank

    Frank Senior Member

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    Jody has it really helped you that much?
    I want to buy the cream, but i don't know if i can get it send to Europe. Maybe some ingredient is not allowed .. Anyway if i can get it, i'll share my experience.
    Frank (Belgium)
  13. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Frank,

    Yeah, it's one of the few things I 've tried that had an immediate, noticeable effect -- that didn't also make me sick. :)

    I have on and off problems with sore throats, ear aches, swollen glands. For awhile it was pretty constant so my naturopath recommended this ointment.

    Rub it on the area, and I had drainage begin with minutes.

    Also, my husband had a huge swelling -- size of a tennisball -- in his elbow a few months back. Appeared out of nowhere, he figures he must have hurt it on something but doesn't remember banging it. Had some acupuncture which helped over weeks, but it only got down to the size of a golfball in a bag (spooky looking elbow:eek: ).

    Naturopath recommended Lymphagen. So he rubbed it on his elbow twice a day and after a few days, the swelling started to shrink. Very slow, very gradual but over a couple of weeks, it got down to normal looking. There IS still a very small area that you wouldn't even notice if you weren't looking for it. We ran out of Lymphagen and haven't been able to afford any for awhile. When we can get some, he can see about getting rid of the tiny remnant.

    Also.

    My son is 19, has some acne, but realized there was what I'd have said was a blind pimple or white head that had been there a long time. Saw a photo of him from 3 yrs before -- same zit. Or was it a zit? And ... it was getting really big.

    It got so big there was no way this was a zit. He also has CFS and I was worried about what to do about this.

    Had him use lymphagen. After 24 hrs, it got bigger, and ... soft instead of hard. Very gross looking.:rolleyes: But it was moving stuff so I had him keep using it. After a few days this hard lump had turned into a gigantic white head, with 3 heads. Within a few more days the white heads began to get rid of their pus etc. Within a few more days, looked like a normal zit.

    Eventually it disappeared. He's used it on some other spots as well and it gets rid of stuff that shouldn't be there pretty fast.

    So, I recommend it for sure. For all kinds of problems :)
  14. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Dr. Perrin believes lymphatic drainage problems are at the heart of this illness. In his book The Perrin Technique he apparently describes self massage/lymph drainage techniques you can use. Might be a good idea to get it if this is a chronic problem. Check out Amazon.
  15. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    Frickly,

    How are you doing today?
  16. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Tender lymph nodes

    I have these, but I don't hear that much about them from other patients. Tender lymph nodes appear in the Fukuda and Canadian case definitions, (along with joint pain, sore throats and headaches.)

    For me, tender occipital lymph nodes (the ones one the back of your head behind the lower side of both ears) along with joint pain and PEM, have been my hallmark symptoms. When I overexert the lymph pain sharpens and throbs, and spread down along the back of my neck and sometimes up toward my skull. Periods where I've felt better, the pain resides to a small area the size of a bean. There is no swelling just constant ongoing pain. Some of the other lymph nodes ache (front of neck, armpits) but not nearly as bad as the occipital ones.

    I have a rice filled horseshoe pillow that I heat in the microwave and wrap around my neck for most of the day.

    Anyone else have this?
  17. CJB

    CJB Senior Member

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    I have had swollen lymph nodes in my neck like you describe on and off. They almost always come with fever and after I've pushed too hard. But I don't think they're anywhere near as painful as you describe.
  18. rajulko

    rajulko

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    Hello Robin

    I have tender lymph nodes as well-exactly in the areas you have described it. I have some additional in my groin. Did you have you EBV, CMV titres checked? I know this started with mono (EBV) in 2000-then i caught CMV in 2007...that was the startof my CFS.I have a sore throat and low grade fevers since then. If anyone have some advice how to cope with tender lymph nodes, it would be great. Thanks
  19. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    Robin, I have suboccipital lymph node pain too. I also get tons of swelling there when my symptoms are at their worst and bad occipital headaches. Gentle massage/lymph drainage and Advil help a little.
  20. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    I too have tender lymph nodes and sore throat especiallly if I do too much. When I am extra tired, the lymph nodes will swell especially the one over the clavicle, on the left side for some reason.

    I don't think the doctors pay a lot of attention to this sign (I mean non CFIDS doctors). In term of pain, I never thought of a warmed up rice bag, I guess it's not the worst of my symptom. I start medicating with joint pain and headaches.

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