.:: Sustained-release Methylation Protocol (SRMP) ::.

[whodathunkit]

What doses of the above were you taking?

I don't quite remember. Seems like a couple/few grams of glycine, a couple/few grams of glutamine, and then a couple capsules of Solaray NAC, whatever dosage that would be.

I wish I could be a little more precise. But it was a while back. HTH at least a little. I'd advise "starting low and going slow".

 

[Avalon]

@Avalon For me B2 deficency was a key factor in creating a methylation roadlock / trainwreck.

I got my levels up as described in my post. I think it took about 3 weeks. Then I could take methylfolate and - it would create a soothing feeling of glutathinone and neurotransmitter boost... rather than the awful feelings of anxiety, inflammation and insomnia.

I continue to take enough B2 to make sure my urine stays yellow. I presently take a little 3x a day, just in case. Its cheap and didn't give me side effects.

I have since moved on and now take a different regime than the one described in this post - now that I can tolerate methylation supplements I am free to experiment - but this was the recipe that got me methylating properly and wanted to share it.

@Sherpa, cheers thanks for the head up, just read about B2, my only issues is that I suffer bouts of depression, so I'm not sure if extra B2 may cause a dive in serotonin!

 

[Sherpa]

@Sherpa, cheers thanks for the head up, just read about B2, my only issues is that I suffer bouts of depression, so I'm not sure if extra B2 may cause a dive in serotonin!

I didn't have any problems with B2 - I was deficient and, if anything, my body welcomed it. The boost of neurotransmitters I get from being able to take methylfolate - without problems - is the best "anti-depressant" ever. It fixed a serious, lifelong, underlying depression.

Disclaimer: your neurochemistry is different than mine, and results may vary

 

[Avalon]

Cheers man!!, will secure some B2 and take at low dosage.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Cheers man!!, will secure some B2 and take at low dosage.

You might try it after 7PM at first... When I was taking B2 in my B complex last year I had what I called "6 o'clock blues". I think the body starts breaking neurotransmitters down at the sunset, and being with my serotonin downregulated the B2 would worsen the situation. Of course, as Sherpa said, the right dose of MB12 and Mfolate will do the trick.

 

[Valentijn]

What doses of the above were you taking?

I take 1800mg of sustained release NAC daily, 600mg at a time, spread out through the day.

 

[Avalon]

You might try it after 7PM at first... When I was taking B2 in my B complex last year I had what I called "6 o'clock blues". I think the body starts breaking neurotransmitters down at the sunset, and being with my serotonin downregulated the B2 would worsen the situation. Of course, as Sherpa said, the right dose of MB12 and Mfolate will do the trick.

@Gondwanaland, thanks very much for your reply, I have to be very careful that I don't start down regulate serotonin, hate feeling depressed!. I find all supplementation, protocols and the like, you just end up just chasing your tail and never seem to get any where but I shall try very small doses of B2. Really I want a multivitamin with very low dose everything, make it simple that just nudges my system in the right direction. However, I am taking Biotics Research BIO-B 100, which is very look dose except for the folate but when I take Hydroxy B12, my system goes nuts due to the folate (very very sensitive)

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Avalon I think I found out the cause to my B2 intolerance, it can be due to low copper.

 

[Avalon]

@Avalon I think I found out the cause to my B2 intolerance, it can be due to low copper.

That's great, you have to be careful with zinc as I read that too much of it is antagonistic to copper. You pointed me to ACU-CELL web site which is very interesting. Have you had their acu cell analysis panel?

 

[Gondwanaland]

That's great, you have to be careful with zinc as I read that too much of it is antagonistic to copper. You pointed me to ACU-CELL web site which is very interesting. Have you had their acu cell analysis panel?

No, I live in South America.
Another thing, I probably got hypothyroid from taking B2, since T4 plays a role in activating B2.

 

[Sherpa]

I'm no longer using the NT Factor for Lipid Replacement Therapy / mitochondrial support.

I find that Phospholipid Complex PC 5200 by Empirical Labs is a liquid sunflower lechitin extract that is more effective & potent. The company claims its "stronger than BioBody PC." I haven't tried Biobody so I can't compare, but I think this stuff has excellent effects. Messy goo is more inconvenient to handle than NT Factor, though.

 

[skyebean]

I started taking methylation supplements last spring, and started experiencing improvements in my stamina and mood. TMG was especially helpful. I could take 1000 mgs at a time. The longer I have been taking methyl donor supplements, the less I can tolerate them....or rather, the more niacin I need. In the beginning, one would knock back my symptoms (inflammation, irritation, high body temp, paranoia). As time went on, I had to take more and more when I overmethylated. It got to the point where I was taking 100 mg tablet every15-30 minutes, and barely keeping the symptoms down.
Then I found adeno b12. For some reason, this takes my symptoms down, and makes the niacin work with just a pill or two. It is also the only thing that has gotten rid of my insomnia. It gives me amazing stamina, and a wonderful sense of well-being. Yay! But I really have to balance it, or my temps start going up again, and I feel revved (though not irritable or paranoid). I cannot take any methyl donors. I cannot take zinc, vitamin D, or magnesium. I cannot eat nutritional yeast. I avoid herbal teas. I can't take primrose oil. They all set off that reaction. It used to be a matter of waiting for a few days for the overmethylation to calm down, but it's been months now. I few months back I used prescription strength hydrocortisone cream for a nasty case of poison oak, and I've been stuck on high since....except for the adeno b12 making me feel calm, sane, strong, and happy (when in balance).

I have felt like I've been overfilling a tank, but maybe I am making some other deficiency happen. I am curious if any of this sounds like it could be related to a b2 deficiency.....or some other type of deficiency...

@Sherpa @Valentijn @ahmo

 

[Sherpa]

I started taking methylation supplements last spring, and started experiencing improvements in my stamina and mood. TMG was especially helpful. I could take 1000 mgs at a time. The longer I have been taking methyl donor supplements, the less I can tolerate them....or rather, the more niacin I need. In the beginning, one would knock back my symptoms (inflammation, irritation, high body temp, paranoia). As time went on, I had to take more and more when I overmethylated. It got to the point where I was taking 100 mg tablet every15-30 minutes, and barely keeping the symptoms down. Then I found adeno b12. For some reason, this takes my symptoms down, and makes the niacin work with just a pill or two. It is also the only thing that has gotten rid of my insomnia. It gives me amazing stamina, and a wonderful sense of well-being. Yay! But I really have to balance it, or my temps start going up again, and I feel revved (though not irritable or paranoid). I cannot take any methyl donors. I cannot take zinc, vitamin D, or magnesium. I cannot eat nutritional yeast. I avoid herbal teas. I can't take primrose oil. They all set off that reaction. It used to be a matter of waiting for a few days for the overmethylation to calm down, but it's been months now. I few months back I used prescription strength hydrocortisone cream for a nasty case of poison oak, and I've been stuck on high since....except for the adeno b12 making me feel calm, sane, strong, and happy (when in balance).

I have felt like I've been overfilling a tank, but maybe I am making some other deficiency happen. I am curious if any of this sounds like it could be related to a b2 deficiency.....or some other type of deficiency...

@Sherpa @Valentijn @ahmo

I don't know what's going on @skyebean - but here is my general take:

Niacin is most optimal as an occasional rescue, rather than a daily methylation brake. When my pathyways are primed and clear...
I don't need niacin except rarely. I just need to keep the methyl donor doses in the appropriate range.

If you are in a situation where you are overmethylating too much for weeks or months - maybe there is some kind of vitamin / mineral / thyroid deficiency or block?

In my case I discovered I needed B2 to not overmethylate severely... and once I got methylation working I needed additional magnesium to keep it going, it seemed to use up a lot. That was my case, my genes. What about yours???

A couple diagnostic questions:

1. Are you sure you are undermethylated and need donors? Have you had a whole blood histamine or methylation pathways test that confirms this? Your genetic mutations don't point to multiple & obvious methylation issues like mine do - but it COULD be an issue.

2. Have you had an Organic Acid Test (OAT) or Hair (HTMA) or Nutraeval type test to show what you might be missing?

My OAT and hair test point out some issues I didn't notice, and confirm some I did.

 

[Sherpa]

I few months back I used prescription strength hydrocortisone cream for a nasty case of poison oak, and I've been stuck on high since.

Could it be high cortisol or high adrenaline... rather than too many (over)methylation neurotransmitters? High copper causing high adrenaline synthesis?

Have you tried cortisol lowering "brakes" like Seriphos or Theanine Serene with Relora?

 

[skyebean]

@Sherpa Thank you for your reply!

I've had no tests other than the 23andme. I am very confused about what tests to take, especially because (at least with hair mineralization tests) I keep reading conflicting results about how accurate they are. I have an ND on my list to talk to, but I just want to make sure I know what tests I want.

All I know (about being an undermethylator) is how I reacted when I started taking the supps. Back when I started I was taking choline, and a b6/methyl b12/folic acid (before I knew better) combo. My body temps went back to normal, and I weaned off of my Naturthroid. Then I added in TMG, and my crashes stopped..... I could tolerate oodles of methyl b12 with no reaction, quickly had bad reactions to methylfolate. Throughout all of this I tried Ben Lynch's multi, and Amy Yasko's. The All-in-One made me feel so happy and fabulous, and then my symptoms (I know it could be something other than overmethylation) would come up. In the beginning I would have suicidal feelings when that happened. I tried the b1/moly sulphur protocol, did the pee strips, took Optimal Start....that seemed like it was allowing me to tolerate more, but then no...

My body loved the zinc, and I loved that I was starting to be able to smell things better. Maybe that was something else. I was also taking P-5-P.

I don't have seasonal allergies, but I realized this year - because people's allergies are so bad - that my insomnia became brutal when my husband's allergies were at their peak. I do get crazy reactions to bug bites, bee stings, and poison oak. I have just started to realize that I may have a histamine thing going on. I'm not really sure how that all ties in, but I do know that I am +/+ for DAO A14747C.

It could very well be related to cortisol....or HPA axis signaling or something. Maybe my thyroid is being messed with. My temps shot way up after a day at Disneyland, and I wondered if that was because of all the adrenaline I was producing.

I have found that my husband's and my daughter's body temp goes up when they take too many methyl donors, too. I don't know if we have some special genetic thing going on, or if testing body temp is only something I'm doing. I take my temp thoughout the day when I'm on the edge to preempt getting really triggered. When I take my niacin and/or my adeno, and my temps go down, my symptoms clear. My irritability, paranoia, inflammation, drowsiness all go away.

Two weeks ago I overdid it at a new yoga class, and four days later I was really starting to crash. I took more adeno, and it was completely averted. I was singing and playing with my kids within a couple of hours.... and like I said, when I take the adeno, the niacin starts working again.

I was looking at my Sterling report again, and it has a chart showing what is happening in the Krebs cycle. I have all of the NDUF SNPs (+/-) which, if I am understanding correctly, precede the production of NAD, and somehow precedes the production of FAD...though I'm not sure how the production of FAD is impacted. I don't totally get the FAD-B2 connection, but I keep seeing that come up. Am I wrong about there being a connection?

Also, I did try taking Seriphos for my sleep. It did nothing. I liked the theanine with Relora (my husband LOVES it), but as I got better I started having a negative reaction to it. I think it was the gaba. I used to love gaba, and then stopped being able to tolerate it as I improved. Like I said, the adeno is the only thing that has actually worked (in 5 years of trying everything - homeopathy, hypnotherapy, magnesium, melatonin, tryptophan, ACV, all different herbal combos, pot, Ambien, benedryl, gaba, glycine, inositol, gelatin, honey and cinnamon, meditation, yoga, journaling, dance, and more I'm forgetting). I almost always wake up between 2 and 4:30, and I sleep through the night on adeno. Also, my brain feels like it's been cooling down/clearing since taking adeno regularly.

When I started out about a year ago, I woke in the night with yucky sweats, a couple of yoga poses could put me in bed for the rest of the day, a weekend with family would take me weeks to recover. I was depressed, anxious, and prone to being angry a lot. I felt like I had tunnel vision, my blood sugar was erratic. I hated food, but I had to eat constantly, and I had gained so. much. weight. When I was awake in the night I couldn't even meditate most of the time, because my thoughts were racing so hard. The pain in my whole body felt the worst at night, but maybe because I was so much more aware of it...

Now, my moods are so much more stable. I did a 12 hour day at Disneyland, and no crash. Not even a little one. The wrong kind and intensity of exercise can still threaten me with a crash, but I've been able to stave that off. My blood sugar has been a lot more stable for awhile now, and I've slowly lost quite a bit of weight. I hike, surf, do yoga, and take Zumba classes.. My inflammation has gone way down, and only flares sometimes (I drink tart cherry juice pretty religiously twice a day). The only symptoms left were my sleep, and being able to do any kind of exercise without crashing....

The crash thing is still lurking, and my sleep hasn't been consistently good for a terribly long time... I am craving vitamin D and magnesium, would love to take some primrose oil, but I can't without my overmethylation (0r whatever it is) symptoms flaring. And just enough adeno makes me feel like a healthy 20 year-old. My spark is back (as long as I keep it balanced).

oh...and one more confusing thing... my GI system has run pretty well throughout all of this, and since I've been taking the adeno I've been experiencing IBS symptoms. I'm so confused.

I was just hoping that if the B2 was my issue, it would eliminate my issues with not being able to take anything else. Why did niacin work in the beginning, and why did a gradually require more and more to ameliorate my symptoms? Why does the adeno make it work again?

 

[skyebean]

@Sherpa also, our pipes really leach copper. I had a noticeable improvement in strength after we got an RO filter. I def think I had/have a zinc-copper imbalance... That's why I want to be able to take more zinc. I like being able to smell again!

 

[ahmo]

@skyebean I have very little real understanding of FMN form of B2, except for what I can only call remarkable shifts in me during the 3 weeks I've been taking it. Especially in all my histamine reactions. For nearly a week now I've self-tested - for my anti-histamine, mast cell stabilizing supps, as well as the handful of antioxidants I'd been needing for some months. Now eating some fermented foods, just added some garlic, things I'd been avoiding for 3 years.

Two weeks ago I overdid it at a new yoga class, and four days later I was really starting to crash. I took more adeno, and it was completely averted.

Adeno is one of the things on martin Pall's list of antioxidants to eliminate peroxynitrite. I used it occasionally, as well as ALCAR. These are among the things I'm no longer needing since FMN.
Possibly this comment might be helpful

I did a 12 hour day at Disneyland, and no crash.

 

[skyebean]

@ahmo ohhhhhh yeahhhhhh...... peroxynitrite! Okay, well, I've one-clicked the FMN. I'm going to give it a try. Thank you for the link. It was definitely helpful...

 

[Kathevans]

I’m not sure where to post this—here or at the “23andme & Chronic insomnia and family history of psychiatric/CNS disorders” …

Both have aspects of this information. But:

Ok, I’ve got the list of snps @ppodhajski looks at from earlier in this thread, and I’ve managed to download my 23andme results in Promethease. Good. But after I’ve searched for a particular allele (is that the right word for, say rs1801133, the COMT gene?) is there a way to manipulate/edit the large information square on the screen down to whatever fields might then be necessary to get more information at Uniprot?

Am I making this harder than it is? Or am I just thick? I’ve watched a couple of videos, but none actually explain this.

I really want to explore this idea of the precursors to the chemical reaction that makes a gene function better and from what I read here, Uniprot is the way to this treasure trove.

On a less taxing note note, this is my second day on FMN, or active B2--after pulling back and on the Coenzymated B-Complex and stabilizing my heart issues. Not surprisingly to those of you who’ve tried it, I feel so much more like me I’m amazed. Calmer, more energetic, more centered. Better sleep, too, though far from perfect (that would be way too much to expect from a single supp!). Thank you @Sherpa, @ahmo, @Gondwanaland, @caledonia, @ppodhajski and probably a few others…

If this goes on for more than two days in a row, I’m happy. If I can move on to more hard core (so to speak) methylation supps (beyond the 350mcg methyl-folate and roughly 200mcg methyl B-12, which are causing me pain, given my paradoxical folate insufficiency), I’ll be over the moon. Or somewhere new for a change!

 

[Gondwanaland]

If I remember well, you

1) search for the Genes from @ppodhajski list on your promethease report
2) for the ones Promethease says you have detrimental SNPs (+/+ or +/-) you then copy the gene name and
3) paste on Uniprot, select "human" and look up the cofactors