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ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
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Susceptibility of human primary neuronal cells to XMRV (XMRV infecting the brain)

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Jemal, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    This just popped up on the radar... full article is available as PDF. It's a NIH/FDA/HHS study.

    http://www.virologyj.com/content/8/1/443/abstract
  2. Spring

    Spring Senior Member

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    Well to me it looks like this is huge, especially as NIH and FDA are involved. Very nice catch!
  3. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    Is this for real?

    ... And is it what I think it is?
  4. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    In only four hours, they were able to see that the bystander neuronal cell was infected. They had to prove that XMRV was able to cross the blood-brain barrier... But another team had already done this earlier this year.
    This is fascinating stuff! It's like reading a science-fiction book.

    What is also interesting is the fact that a very small amount of XMRV can infect the neuronal cells.
  5. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    The Hewlett lab is one of the FDA labs involved in the Blood Working Group. This virus seems to be able to do some things that you don't want to happen inside of your body...
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi, the more I read about XMRV, the more I don't want it to be the cause. I would like the cause to be something simple so that when understood we can just pop a pill.

    With this level of XMRV involvement then if XMRV needs to be treated and we adopt an infected cell killing strategy, then our brains will be mush - thats presuming we can even survive such a treatment. The best we might hope for in the medium term is to suppress the virus, not eradicate it, or suffer brain damage as a result.

    So I both hope XMRV will be shown to be causal and also disproved. Only a few days till the announcements at the Ottawa conference now.

    Bye
    Alex

    PS From a first glimpse of the PDF I can see this was tested on lab grown cells. These cells may have been undergoing changes that made them more vulnerable. It is also uncertain if this is linked to increased susceptibility in children and not adults. Could this indicate increased susceptibility for the unborn to XMRV? If so it could mean that children with XMRV have a much higher infiltration of the virus into the brain .. can anyone say "autism"?
  7. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    There are many very bad viruses and other pathogens out there that can also infect nerves. Showing that XMRV can proliferate in nerves says nothing about ME/CFS, particularly given all the negative studies.
  8. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    The evidence is mounting. Not proof, but another piece of evidence.

    The only study to look at the brains of primates, actually found evidence of XMRV in long-term chronic infection. The macaque study proved infectivity in non-human primates, with immune systems close to ours.

    The macaque study showed that although the virus appeared to disappear from the blood, it was still in evidence in reservoir tissue areas. There are two parts to this assessment. XMRV almost disappears from the blood, so standard testing of plasma will not find it. Ergo, look in the tissue. Especially tissue where Abopec3 is not evident.

    Certainly, given that no study has looked for XMRV in the human brain, then it certainly can't be ruled out. To say otherwise, given this evidence is very premature.

    The negative studies do not use proven assays - they just prove they don't have the tools to find it. If you walk into a dark room with a candle, you still have to light it to see something. If XMRV is not in the blood, then you are not going to find it anyway (at least not with insensitive assays). Look in the tissue!!!

    BTW, animal models on mice show MLVs are lethal, and it's not much use saying 'oh in humans, Abopec 3 stops XMRV' - that's simply not true.

    I think the evidence shows that ME/CFs is a serious neurological disease. And a retrovirus is a very serious virus.

    The point made by Alex is a good one. If there is virus in the brain, and the neuro problems in ME/CFS prove to be more than inflammation caused by a rampant immune system, then getting medication past the brain-blood barrier to treat hold-out areas is going to be difficult.
  9. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Thanks Jemal - a great find - Virology is really going ahead now.
  10. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Add to what Kurt says above there has been no link between Autism and XMRV, even if it weren''t a contaminant.
  11. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

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  12. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    Too bad we don't get to vote on it, huh, Alex? :Retro smile:
  13. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    If the XMRV association with ME/CFS holds up, this would give us a mechanism for the "encephalo" part of myalgic encephalomyelitis. Interesting that the T-cells could infect nearby neuronal cells.

    I don't suppose anyone who has the disease would be surprised to learn that brain cells were infected.
  14. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    Nope, not with all the headaches, dizzyness, brainfog and exploding head like symptoms I have been getting...
  15. pamb

    pamb Senior Member

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    Amen to that. and double ditto.
  16. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    you guys said that it would be hard to get meds past the blood brain barrier

    I was reading another forum (not on cfs) and a guy described getting hit with symptom that reminded me of m.e., suffered for 6 mo.s and then his doc gave him 3 shots of penicillin in the rear cus he had borderline syph blood test but had been with one partner 15 years who was negative for it,but they treated just in case and he got better. would that go past blood brain barrier? his problems cleared up after that.

    I don't understand why some things like hepatitis take forever to treat and its a rough ride but is that normal syphilis could be dormant and show up and then go
    so easily? and I dont always understand the overlap between antivirals and antibioitics with certain problems. cheney sort of used both.
  17. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    Infections of the brain are very difficult to treat as the blood-brain-barrier will block most antibiotics and antibodies. Apparently some antibiotics can go through under certain conditions, probably with a delay...
  18. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    well this is exactly what i have suspected since the 1st damn day i got CFS...that it was in my brain. i had trouble thinking from the very FIRST day. wow. so it CAN infect neurons. this is the WORSE case scenario for us!! my worse fear!! we will need AZT in amounts that we cannot take. other than that, we will have to wait for CMX157 to come out!

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