A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
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Sulfite wisdom anyone?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by vision blue, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. vision blue

    vision blue

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    Hi fellow afflicted...My urine sulfite levels test at 10 mg/L, especially when concentrated, and would like to know if I should be concerned with "blocked 'pathways", especially the conversion of sulfite to sulfate. I have not tested sulfate since I don't think would be helpful in my case. Note that some parts I know are not blocked: I have high taurine and (probably too much) cysteine, but this tells me that there is no trouble converting the cysteine to taurine. I also do not have any problematic mutations that I know of in CBS or MTHFR Though If anything, i may be an overmethylator, and need to recheck that. I do have a SOD2 mutation (on rs4880) along with about half the european decent population, but not sure if its relevent. Note also my urinary ammonia is high despite a low protein intake, though I've read that most of that comes from the kidneys attempt to neutralize urine Ph, and indeed i still have low urine PH despite all that amonia. I have not had blood ammonia checked.

    Am sort of stuck here because i wanted to make sure the sulfer processing pathways were all working properly before trying a supplement of N acetyl cysteine as well as ramping up on garlic and other cysteine generators. am doing that because of all the elevated taurine, my body clearly needs and is using this for heavy oxidative stress, whose cause i still do not know (have other evidence in urine test of heavy oxidative stress). so migyht as well help the body along. But am stuck. I think molybendom is used in the conversion of sulfite to sulfate but not sure i just want to throw that at the problem since don't know if thats the source of the sulfite problem - if it is one.

    anyone else have these levels of sulfite? is this something i should address? and how? should i avoid the cysteine plan until i know more? any other comments/input? I see there were no takers for wanting to share results of dopamine, seretonin, tyramine, glutimate etc. results, so perhaps this issue won't grab anyone either...Thanks for comments.

    (p.s. I do not agree with the logic of Yasko that high sulfate indicates a problem with high sulfite. If anything, i would think the reverse since it indicates one is doing a good job with the conversion)
     
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Molybdenum is a co-factor for the enzyme SUOX (at the bottom of the transsulfuration pathway) which converts sulfite to sulfate.

    You could have a moly deficiency. You may or may not tolerate NAC and increased sulfur (thiol) foods. NAC is a precursor to glutathione. If the transsulfuration pathway isn't working well you probably also have low reduced glutathione and high oxidized glutathione indicating oxidative stress as you mentioned.

    These are symptoms of mercury toxicity.

    You can try the Heartfixer CBS protocol to get this pathway working better. If you don't believe in Yasko, then maybe you don't want to try this as Heartfixer relies heavily on Yasko. It did work for me. I wasn't able to tolerate any B12 or folate without a stress/anxiety reaction - after I did this protocol, I tolerated a small amount.

    I'm now working on chelating out mercury and other metals with the Cutler frequent dose chelation protocol. I used Cutler's Free Thiol food and supplement list with the Heartfixer protocol instead of eliminating all sulfur. Much easier to do and still works.

    Or you can try the sulfur exclusion trial on Cutler's free thiol list page - http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

    Then avoid thiols and take molybdenum.

    It all boils down to more or less the same thing. Ben Lynch has a similar protocol, except you only do it for a few days, instead of several weeks or longer.

    If you're having trouble with this pathway, consider mercury toxicity as the reason for the oxidative stress etc.

    See my signature link for more info Cutler frequent dose chelation testing, interpretation, groups, etc. and also links to the three CBS protocols.

    ps. if you don't tolerate NAC, Cutler suggests glutamine and glycine which are thiol free precursors to NAC.
     
    Hanna likes this.
  4. vision blue

    vision blue

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    Hi. Thanks you both very much for your input. The website didn't have the info I was looking for, but did have other things. Did not know the connection with sulfonamide, which i'm highly allergic to. its funny, but stuff I "learned" before I analyzed everything for myself somehow got grandfathered and i seem to accept it as gospel rather than going back and reanalyzing which i'll now have to do. For instance, I had thought sulfonamide had zero connection to sulfer/sulfate/sulfite, but need to look in to that now.

    .
    molybendom is a good idea and will look into it -i.e. see if i can tolerate. My cysteine level is usually on the higher side, and its therefore unlikely i'd beneift from NAC (assuming i could tolerate it). on your last sentence, glutamine and glycine are not precursors of NAC- you probably meant to type glutathione. glutathione is a tripeptide manufactured from cysteine, glutamine, and glycine. usually cysteine is the rate limiting factor. Incidentally, can't take glutamine either- it readily converts to glutamate, which is a big issue for me. It's not that i don't "believe" Yasko- its that the logic is wrong in places. I have though seen people with bad logic nonetheless help people.

    Do wish i had some better sulfite strips to know for sure if this is positive. There are so many things i have to follow up on and for time being sulfites had to be put on back burner
     
  5. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    You might try the molybdenum and B1. And activated charcoal.

    I've had issues when detoxing where I start emitting sulfur. When this happens, I ramp up the molybdenum to 1g, take about 600mg of benfotiamine, and 2g of taurine. And take a couple of activated charcoal caps 3 times a day.

    You might also look at these links:

    http://www.beyondmthfr.com/oxalates-and-mthfr-understanding-the-gut-kidney-axis/

    http://www.beyondmthfr.com/side-high-oxalates-problems-sulfate-b6-gut-methylation/

    I also take about 350mg of P5P (form of B6) a day, in the same ballpark as his 5mg/kg recommendation for people like me.
     
  6. vision blue

    vision blue

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    My endegenous taruine is already very high (more evidence my body is fighting hard against oxidative stress), so not going to supplement with that. Also will not use activated charcoal - have enough trouble already with not absorbinb enuf nuterients and being too thin. Though i suppose if i had a brief detox period for a couple of weeks, in principle would not be opposed. I"m not in that situation though. although i do suspect some toxicology challenges at the root of a lot of this, there's nothing i can detox in an acute fashion and be done with it.

    I'm an overmethylator by the way, so alot of the usual advice (for overmethylators) is exactly wrong thing for me. Right now, my oxalate intake must assuredly be extremely low. Spinach was one of the many many foods i lost tolerance to (gut reactions) so not even having any of that.

    its good you know youre "people like me"; its so hard with testing when you know one thing is off to know where it long chain it went wrong.
     

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