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Suggestions for liver/gallbladder/pancreas problems?

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by Mels, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. Mels

    Mels

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    Have thought for a long time that my many troubles stem from my liver; I had a CT scan 2 weeks ago and get the results on Monday.

    Since July last year I have had pancreas pain - which the docs try to dismiss as muscular because I am not writhing around on the floor -yet.

    October last year began having liver pain - castor oil packs seemed to help, and eating a restricted diet. Liver pain had more or less gone until this week and it is creeping back in.

    February this year started to have gallbladder pain - again, disbelief from docs. I have had to go privately to get the CT scan, referred by a private doctor.

    The pain in my gallbladder and pancreas is getting worse each time I get it -yet a few weeks ago I seemed to have it under control and felt better than I had in ages. Energy increased, mood was my old cheeky self - yippee - and I began to feel that I had a future and would actually see my children grow up. I felt so much better I ate and drank more - even had the occasional tiny glass of alcohol and caffeine from time to time.

    However, I think I must have relaxed my dietary controls too much and am now getting my just desserts. I was controlling it by using hydrochloric acid with meals - I had a test showing hypochlorida, hence using the acid to supplement. Was also using pancreatic enzymes, digestive enzymes, and ox bile.

    Have tried milk thistle in the past but reacted badly to it. Seem to tolerate chanca piedra but think it best not to use too much/often as I have read that herbs can damage the liver - just as Oil of Oregano did in my case.

    Anybody tried anything with success that I haven't mentioned? I am restricting diet again - no gluten, sugar, dairy(had sheep yoghurt yesterday and got the worst gb pain ever yet I ate some on Monday no problem; so that's the end of that for now.

    I do coffee enemas from time to time but find that they deplete my potassium . have read that pancreatitis often leads to low potassium too ....

    If anybody has had good results with particular enzymes it would be useful to hear which ones.

    Also pondering the big probiotic question - have tried Saccharamyces Boulardii as have candida , too, according to a stool test in October.

    Yet again I am considering the liver flush .....

    Any thoughts appreciated.

    Mel
     
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I would wait until you know your CT scan results and talk to someone qualified to advise on these things. Nobody here can advise on the basis of what you describe and nobody should try! Pancreatic disease is not something to tinker with.
     
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  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Mel,

    Liver/gb health is a broad subject, but I'll just mention a couple things. The amino acids glycine and taurine are both supposed to be very good for liver/gallbladder health [mentioned at the 16-min. mark in this excellent video] as they emulsify hardened fats and cholesterol that cause so much damage. Apple cider vinegar and malic acid (capsules) are also supposed to be helpful.

    Regarding gall bladder attacks: Anything that can get the bile ducts to relax will be helpful. Heat (hot water bottles and/or epsom salt baths are good), vibration and/or massage is also good. I really like a freeze dried calcium magnesium product called "A to B Calm", which I believe would be good for relaxing bile ducts.

    Was interesting to read how you felt so much better after your initial successes. I too think liver/gb issues are extremely important for people with chronic illnesses, and that untreated or undertreated conditions can adversely affect us more than most of us realize.

    Best, Wayne
     
  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    @Wayne,
    You are advising about a potentially lethal medical condition. As a board member this concerns me. The appropriate advice for a gall bladder attack is to get medical help immediately.
     
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  5. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Mel

    Any abdominal pain needs checking out properly before thinking of treatment as Jonathan says, but if it is gsll stones l would not agree to surgery when there have been so many unsuccessful cases you can read about where there are long term problems and doctors will not tell you about alternative treatments. You need to wait till you know how bad things are though regarding stones and if it is a medical emergency then you might have no option. Surgery is suggested too easily IMO.
     
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  6. Mels

    Mels

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    I do understand your mainstream medical approach.

    However,the reason I am asking questions on here is because the doctors at my surgery are not taking my symptoms seriously.

    I have been to see them but been dismissed and told that I have either pulled a muscle or have IBS. Or that the menopause is causing me to feel different.

    They are very good at telling me that my memory of my former healthy self is false, too.

    I am not going to lie down and die without giving this my best effort so am researching in lots of different places. I would never expect anybody to try to diagnose or treat me in a forum, though funnily enough the very people who should do just that - doctors -are less forthcoming than anybody.

    It is helpful to find out other people's experiences and, in the nicest possible way, comforting to know that there are people out there that understand the fear and frustration we feel at having to battle this out alone.
     
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  7. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Mels - Obviously it's important to get your CT scan results and it's really too bad doctors haven't taken you seriously - actually it's more than too bad ...

    I haven't had pancreas problems and wonder how you know that some of the pain you have had is pancreatic as opposed to gallbladder or liver.

    I had gallbladder and liver problems off and on for several years and I was helped enormously by my chiropractor who does muscle testing (I know! heresy!) He really helped me though and I think saved my gallbladder. One of my chief problems was lack of stomach acid - never picked up by the MDs - it would be great if they looked for this, but they don't. My chiropractor gave me AF Betafood by Standard Process for my gallbladder and it was fabulous and eventually I learned about my need for HCL. People with CFS are notorious for being deficient in stomach acid - and regular MDs don't know this.

    I'm sure you know that if you have gallbladder or liver problems, stay away from most fats - they are difficult to digest. I think coconut oil is one oil which is relatively easy on the digestive system.

    Re my liver - it was very toxic - symptoms were fatigue, spaciness, feeling poisoned - and my appetite was way off, could not eat until after 12:00 noon, even though my diet was good. Turns out I had chemical solvents from a job when I was 19 messing up my liver - I did a liver detox under the supervision of my chiropractor - it took a month and was not pleasant at all, but afterwards my liver was so much better. Prior to the detox one glass of wine would make me sick for an entire day, and 2 glasses would make me sick for 2-3 days. A few glasses of wine is no longer a problem for me. I have been taking milk thistle ever since (it's been 12 years) and my liver is still good.

    So I'm not sure what to tell you. I never had pancreatic problems. I would have been lost without muscle testing and firmly believe that if I had been left to the devices of regular MDs, I would have deteriorated to the point where they wanted to take out my gallbladder and maybe I would have let them. As it is, my gallbladder is in good shape, and my liver is in good shape. I still take HCL. I stopped for awhile but then got symptoms of SIBO and had read it can be caused by low HCL so I'm back on betaine HCL.

    It sounds like you know what to eat and what not to eat - hopefully the CT scan will give you more information. And if you're curious, google "applied kinesiology UK" and you'll find people who do this in the UK,. I'm not recommending this over seeing a doctor, but if after your scan they still don't know what's going on, then I highly recommend muscle testing (done by a competent practitioner - there are good ones and bad ones, just like there are good and bad MDs).
     
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    It was clear from Mels' post that she has already been receiving medical care--apparently without getting much in the way of satisfactory results or answers. It was also clear [to me anyway] she was exploring different self-help options for herself, and ended her post with "any thoughts appreciated". So I shared my thoughts--that's what we do here on PR. I was not advising. Sheesh!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  9. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    It's a slippery slope whether something is medical advice or information. I find that sometimes its difficult to distinguish between the two. Maybe adding citations might be benefical? Sometimes knowing the source of information tells you a lot. Unfortunately, this is not always true.

    However, what I sometimes see that IMHO is also worrisome is when members are actually self diagnosing or diagnosing other's health.conditions. Someone may say that symptoms A, B and C are caused by D. From this assumption, many treatments may be recommended which may be based on a false premise.
     
  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    @Mel - If having gallbladder symptoms, a liver flush would probably be a very bad idea. It involves oil, and fats are exactly what a gallbladder might be struggling to deal with. It's also unlikely that oil-based flushes are actually doing anything. The procedures used are pretty much guaranteed to create solid chunks of olive oil, which people like to pretend are gallstones - but they aren't.

    I think it makes the most sense to get your CT results, and see what the private doctor thinks about how to proceed. And take it easy on fats in the meantime if you are having gallbladder symptoms.
     
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  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi @Mel9

    I'm wondering how you've been able to determine that CEs deplete your potassium. Would appreciate any elaboration on that.

    Re: CEs -- They're reputed to be able to relax the bile ducts that may be clogged, and may help bring relief if you're experiencing gb pain. CEs are also reputed to relieve overall pain in the body, and might be helpful in that regard as well.

    This kind of generalized pain relief was what German nurses noticed in their post-operative patients back in the first world war. They had run out of pain relieving medications and opioids, and discovered that a CE could significantly reduce post-operative pain for several hours at a time.
     
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  12. Mels

    Mels

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    Hi @Wayne

    Sorry I haven't responded- I am @Mels not @Mel9 so guess that's how I missed your post .

    I find that sometimes after a coffee enema I can have calf muscle cramps, more fatigue, depressed or hyper mood and chemical sensitivity, more palpitations than usual- for me these are some of my low potassium signs.


    I read in one of Sherry Roger's books that coffee enemas do not usually deplete electrolytes or minerals unless you are starting off already deficient- so I exercise caution by not doing them too often as I know I am imbalanced!

    But I am a fan of coffee enemas- would love to be able to do more often.

    Good healing

    Mels
     
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  13. silverseas2014

    silverseas2014

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    @Mel Hello. I too have gallbladder issues. After you've cleared it with your doctor, you might consider trying Bitters. I have found them quite useful in helping with gallbladder pain/bile function. I mostly use individual bitters; I use the following in daily rotation (I do _not_ take them all every day): Yellow Dock, Burdock, Gentian, Dandelion, and occasionally, Milk Thistle. I do take one blend of herbs for gallbladder, called Stonebreaker (this is a combination of chanca piedra, hydrangea root, celery seed, and burdock seed). I use Herb Pharm's formulas (on Amazon).

    You could also try swedish bitters---there are many brands.

    In good health,
    Silverseas2014
     
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  14. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    When I saw your post, I recalled a woman from the ProHealth message board who had great success with her gallbladder issues by using a Standard Process product called, Standard Process A-F Betafood 0825. She posted about her experience several times, and it truly was a major shift for her.
     
    Mels likes this.
  15. Mels

    Mels

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    @silverseas2014 Thank you so much for posting, much appreciated. Will investigate these products.

    Hope you are healing

    Mels
     
  16. JAH

    JAH Senior Member

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    I thought I had gallbladder and pancreas issues many times, due to pain in those areas. And in general feeling worse when I had that pain. I had an ultrasound of my gallbladder that was negative. Fast forward a few years and I was diagnosed, through an EMG , with a mild radiculopathy (pinched nerve) in my upper back. The pain radiated to my sides, and that's where I felt it. I never felt pain in my back. (This is common in pregnant women)

    I agree with other posters - see what the CT says. It's really frustrating not to know what's happening. Is it "just" CFS, or is something else going on. I've had another pain caused by a radiculopathy that was a mystery to me for 20 years! (Went through 2 CTs, ultrasounds,colonoscopy for that one). Hope you don't have to wait that long...J
     
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  17. Uno

    Uno Senior Member

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    Don't screw around with self help treatments. I've almost died three times from sepsis from a liver disease. Leave it to the professionals.
     
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  18. Uno

    Uno Senior Member

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    The latest PSC support meeting chaired by Dr Thorburn - the head of the Royal free liver unit - said a list of stuff that's DAMAGING to the liver. Will find it later x
     
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  19. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    This is absolutely not true! Think as an example someone who is not deficient yet gets the stomach flu with diarrhea. You're electrolytes can plummet in a short period of time!

    I can only relate my experience but take it from someone who ended up in the hospital several times for low sodium and chloride. It happened very quickly and was a terrifying experience. Low electrolytes can be lethal.

    Caffeine has diuretic properties.

    Barb

    ETA @Mels

    How are you doing? I just noticed this thread was started several months ago.
     

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