1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Phoenix Rising Adds Two New Board Members
Mark Berry introduces the new President of Phoenix Rising, Dr. Gary Solomon, and welcomes Professor Jonathan Edwards to the Phoenix Rising Board of Directors.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Stupid/Cranky and arbitrary doctors: rant warning!

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Valentijn, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. Lala

    Lala Senior Member

    Messages:
    317
    Likes:
    57
    EU
    I often can not believe, how stupid they are. For example my friend went to her gynecologist and complained about pain during sex. The doctor told her she is absolutely ok and the reason of pain is that her boyfriend has too big penis. (She has never seen him, of course, and my friend started to complain after living with boyfriend for a long time) My friend stared at her suprisingly and asked whether she had ever heard about baby head going through vagina. We suspect she did not.
    Cheshire, taniaaust1, SOC and 4 others like this.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes:
    9,110
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    My GP thinks I should see a psychologist too, though she's careful to say it's for adapting to the illness (and for not going to the doctor when I have new and alarming symptoms?) But she doesn't seem to understand why I stopped going to the stupid fatigue clinic in the first place. Aside from it not helping at all, I would go home and crash far too often.

    It's not like I can just add something extra into my life and still go on as normal. Going to a psychologist would probably mean a crash afterwards, or at the very least it would mean cutting out one or more other activities from my day. I'm already down to two showers per week. Should I cut back on cooking and give my fiance even more to do when he comes home after 10 hours of work and traffic?

    Seeing a psychologist might help a bit if I can find one who treats chronically ill patients but has never heard of ME/CFS (they get aggressively targeted by BPS propaganda here). Hell, maybe it could help me deal with the damage the last psychologist did, and the crappy attitudes I've been getting from the GPs' office that's recommending I see a shrink in the first place :p But I'm too disabled for that to be a practical choice, unless they do home visits at no charge to me.
    Lala, peggy-sue and Misfit Toy like this.
  3. Bluebell

    Bluebell Senior Member

    Messages:
    392
    Likes:
    210

    Girlfriend, I've worked for lawyers and dated lawyers.... so, uhhh, are you sure about that? :p

    Maybe the self-aware ones know how little they know, but they also know how important it is to act and talk as if they are 100% certain of their facts and opinions (which can carry over into their personal lives too :lol:).

    Of course, many folks in most professions are the same - doctors, business managers, bankers, cops, clergy, teachers...

    ----
    I'm sorry to hear of that awful appointment, and about your recent cluster of new symptoms. :(

    Is your doctor who is based in the US a good one?
    Firestormm and Valentijn like this.
  4. vamah

    vamah Senior Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes:
    667
    Washington , DC area

    What's the difference between a doctor and God? God doesn't think he's a doctor.
  5. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes:
    1,295
    NZ
    I have had suffered so badly with inflammation in the head, that it has been even hard to think as my brain has felt so bruised that it even has hurt to think. So going to a psychologist would be a waste of time for me, because after 15 minutes I think I would struggle to process all that she telling me. My brain would start shutting down to protect itself from the over stimulation of information coming my way.
  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes:
    9,110
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Well, some are total turds, I won't argue with that And in the first year of law school, you're stuck with exactly the same turds in every class for the ENTIRE YEAR. And if you thought group work in high school and undergrad was bad, try doing it with a couple self-entitled idiots in the group, and then factor in that your group has to work with another group with more self-entitled idiots in it. :cautious:
    Yeah, Dr Deichert is good. He's a fully licensed ND (they have to have a similar education to MD's in Washington State), and ARNP. Not a ME/CFS specialist, but intelligent, listens, and actually wants to look at the big picture as much as possible.
    SOC likes this.
  7. Bluebell

    Bluebell Senior Member

    Messages:
    392
    Likes:
    210
    Good, that's really important and positive!

    ---
    Have you done the MBTI? If so, are you an ENTJ? :nerd:
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes:
    9,110
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    INTJ :p
    rosie26 likes this.
  9. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,874
    Scotland
    I've done the Myers-Briggs, but I can't remember what I was. :p
    rosie26 likes this.
  10. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,686
    Likes:
    530
    Central Illinois, USA
    ENTJ looks familiar to me but that was many years ago....and I cant recall with accuracy 30 mins ago :eek: On second thought more likely INTJ. I just remembered what E stood for ;)
    rosie26 likes this.
  11. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes:
    1,310
    INFJ-of course something rare. Only 1% of people are this....
  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,337
    Likes:
    3,618
    Midwest USA
    I'm INFJ too.

    I was ENFJ before I got sick though.

    Ema
    Misfit Toy likes this.
  13. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes:
    4,077
    Ontario, Canada
    I used to take courses at University with the med students and they, on the whole, did not seem stupid, cranky, or arbitrary. Perhaps some research is in order to pinpoint exactly what happens for some of them to become stupid, cranky, arbitrary and extraordinarily jaded.

    I have to say though, that some Doctors are entirely reasonable and effective but it's really unfortunate that they all aren't. What does the Hippocratic oath say -- 'above all do no harm'. How many times a day does a doctor's attitude break this oath? If doctors could be sued for being stupid, cranky and arbitrary, a lot of us would be very very rich. :D

    I have known some really excellent doctors when I was still an RN. Some are incredibly kind, intuitive, willing to look for answers, willing to listen to the patients etc. And then there are the rest! :mad:

    As far as personality types go -- I am INFJ alternating with AOTP (I made that up -- All Over The Place):D
  14. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,297
    Likes:
    6,283
    USA
    Doctors can have it pretty rough in the working-with-people arena. Frankly, people who aren't good with idiots shouldn't go into a field where they have to deal with idiots every day, but plenty of smart people don't think about that before they go into medicine. I don't think physician education systems evaluate doctors for interpersonal skills or do much to teach them the sophisticated interpersonal skills doctors really need to deal with both the idiots they encounter every day and the people with serious problems who need their help.

    Lets face it, there are whiners, complainers, self-important ignoramuses, and hypochondriacs out there and doctors see a lot of them. I know I would lose patience with that kind of person, but I knew better than to get into a profession where I would be forced to work kindly and supportively with them on a daily basis.

    My problem with doctors comes when they don't have the interpersonal skills they need to distinguish between the ignorant and the knowledgeable, the whiners and the genuinely ill, and so on. I really hate being talked down to by someone with no more intelligence, education, or common sense than I have. I hate it when they assume right off the bat that I'm a whiner, when in fact I'm more likely to not complain about a lot of symptoms than I am to complain too much. Basically, I hate their patronizing attitude. I understand that working with the general public as they do would probably make me inclined to assume everyone is an idiot ;), but I didn't make the deliberate choice to work with the general public for just that reason. I'm smart, but I'm no fool. ;)

    So, while I understand that doctors can have a tough time seeing a lot of annoying people and trying to stay open-minded and helpful, I also think it's part of their profession to do so. Salespeople have the same problem, but if they don't develop good interpersonal skills, they lose their job. Unfortunately, the job market being what it is for doctors, they get to keep on working even when they lack such a basic job skill.

    That said, I have met several amazing doctors in the last year -- people who were intelligent, who listened to what I had to say, who really tried to help. They're out there. I know that. I'm starting to profile, though. ;) So far, the good ones have not been, 1) European/American males, or 2) European or Asian/American females under 50 years old. Maybe that's just me or my local megalopolis group practice, though. :D
    taniaaust1 and Valentijn like this.
  15. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

    Messages:
    5,536
    Likes:
    4,077
    Ontario, Canada
    SOC

    You know what gets on my nerves -- big time. A doctor will decide that you are something in the first five minutes of meeting you. About three years ago, I damaged the nerve in my knee. I have never felt pain like it. When I went to the ER, the triage nurse was pretty rough putting on the BP cuff and knocked my knee which resulted in me dropping the 'f' bomb. She thought I was swearing at her, nope it was the pain. During the long wait to see a doctor, I had to find a position I could handle which happened to be balancing on one leg holding on to the back of the chair. When I finally saw the doctor, he announced I was 1. abusive and 2. it couldn't be that painful because I could stand -- thank you triage nurse. He cut me off when I tried to explain and because he decided it couldn't be that painful, he wouldn't prescribe pain meds and all they did was put a support bandage around it. I went back to the ER a week later and got the same thing because it was written on my records what had happened the first time around. I was given a strong anti-inflammatory despite me saying that the last time I took them I developed stomach issues. The doctor basically dismissed me without listening. I went back a third time and finally, the youngish doctor listened to me and referred me to a specialist in the hospital (I did not have a family doctor at the time). When I got to see the specialist, I had been in excruciating unrelenting pain for over three weeks just because of three idiot so-called professionals. Unfortunately, the damage was done. My knee has never healed -- it feels like when you have a shot of novacaine and it still hurts (minor though). I spent three months flat on my back. It was all totally preventable and it is a huge failure of the health cared education system and the health care system in general that things like this go on day after day. The nurse was fired a few months later for I don't know what -- good.

    I generally avoid doctors now. I did recently get a new family doctor who seems to be okay. I have only been in to meet him as a new patient. I told him a bit about my symptoms and he admitted he didn't know a lot (good for him), he said he was willing to listen and treat me according to what I wanted (good for him), and he was willing to learn (good for him). I have no idea if this is true or not. We shall see. I did have a family doctor before that one but I fired him because he actually rolled his eyes when I described my symptoms and I was willing to go back on the waiting list rather than deal with that kind of crap.:mad:
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  16. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,339
    Likes:
    9,110
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    And then you have to wonder how deliberate the mistreatment was. Was it a deliberate choice to leave you in pain to punish you for saying the naughty word?

    Something the cranky doctor did with me when I mentioned stomach pain was push rather hard several times in a spot which was not where I was reporting the pain. And after being jabbed there repeatedly, I did indeed end up with pretty sharp pain for a couple days afterward - but none of the constipation she so confidently diagnosed.
  17. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    597
    northern Maine
    How about 30 hour shifts during residency? What does that kind of abuse do to a person?
    peggy-sue and Valentijn like this.
  18. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes:
    1,295
    NZ
    I feel quite fortunate to have the GP that I have now. He had an ME patient many, many years ago.
    I remember my first visit to him about 6 years ago. As I left to go out the door he said to me "make sure to get lots of rest Rosie" and kindly put his arm around my shoulder. I nearly fell over in shock !!! I know I smiled back at him, but I was really lost for words. I felt that he had understood my Illness.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  19. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    597
    northern Maine
    I have found the best way to find out what the doctor really thinks is to read their notes. I'm still amazed how often the notes bear little resemblance to what was actually said in the clinic.

    The mistreatment of your knee injury is really disturbing. And yet it is so typical. I would have to be on death's doorstep before going to the emergency room. With this illness, what would be the point? I know I would immediately be labelled as a "drug seeker". Doctors around here all seem to think that if a person even sees a pain pill they will be instantly addicted and living in the gutter in a week.
    Lala, Valentijn and Kina like this.
  20. Bluebell

    Bluebell Senior Member

    Messages:
    392
    Likes:
    210
    Well, that was not a bad guess on my part, if I do say so myself!

    I=Introverted, E=Extraverted
    For you: I didn't have much to go on regarding the I vs. E, and the thing that swung me to the E side was how you are so enthusiastic with your "likes" of comments here and how your comments have received thousands of "likes" from others, plus the fact that you are 'talkative' on many different threads... and you have integrated into a foreign culture, and you are confident and a little 'sassy', as it were. :D
    (Are you an only child, or the oldest sibling, maybe with only a younger brother or two?)
    Me: I am right on the dividing line in the test, and in life too. I am a smidgeon over to the E side on the test results, partly because of how I adapted to behaviors that American society requires of children growing up here, but in real life and in my spirit I am very deeply an I.

    N=Intuitive, F=Sensing
    I was about to say that I could "just tell" this one, which is the point about being intuitive, I guess! Probably slightly fewer sensors than intuitives go to law school OR adapt well in foreign countries. For some reason, your emphasis on the practical side of learning what you needed to know for your state's bar exam rather than arcane English legal history pulled me towards sensing, but still, your general thought process felt familiar enough to me to guess that you are an intuitive like I am.

    T=Thinking, F=Feeling
    We're both on the T side - this can be seen in the way we think, classify, research, argue, and how we don't mind (too much) being shown when we are wrong. I expect more T women embark on a post-grad degree than F women.

    J=Judging, P=Perceiving
    For you: Lawyers are mostly Js, and you are plainly a J anyway.
    Me: "Then Bluebell comes along after Valentijn in a thread, and with her massive P way of looking at the world says, 'But do know, dear Commenter, that Valentijn's opinion, whilst valuable and well-supported, and asserted with poise and a high degree of confidence, may not be set in stone nor entirely proscriptive regarding your unique situation!'"

    :)
    Valentijn likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page