Study of Insect-borne Infections in ME patients planned

[msf]

http://simmaronresearch.com/2015/10/tea-time-at-simmaron-pt-ii-the-infectious-cluster-study/

I will now retreat to the sidelines where I will occasionally cheer on my favourite team...

 

[Denise]

I misunderstood TBI. My first interpretation was Traumatic Brain Injury (as opposed to tick-borne illness).

 

[msf]

I´ll change it.

 

[msf]

OK - ticks aren´t insects but I don´t think most people care.

 

[duncan]

Perhaps Cort could remind me how TBD's would manifest in cluster outbreaks...

...and yes, ticks aren't insects.

Wow. We could have a lot of fun with this.

 

[msf]

Hey, whose side are you on?

 

[duncan]

I am not on the side of the people who get it wrong.

Hey, did they list Bartonella?

 

[msf]

If you want to be picky, then this isn´t true either: ´Dr. Knox believes she will find a much greater prevalence of exposure to insect borne infections than anyone expects at this point.´

 

[msf]

No, but it says ´the pathogens tested for include.´

 

[duncan]

Ok, ok, ok...How can you list b microti and not duncani?

Did they note b miyamotoi???

Ah, I see your "include" point. Well, ok, leaves lots of wiggle room. THAT makes me uncomfortable.

But I suppose I am being picky.

Still, name me one TBD that can fit into a cluster outbreak like Lake Tahoe or Lyndonville. And they're the ones that brought the cluster thing into the conversation.

 

[SOC]

Perhaps Cort could remind me how TBD's would manifest in cluster outbreaks...

If ME can start from any of a number of infections, all ME cases don't have to be the result of TBDs. The cluster outbreaks could be the result of a highly contagious viral infection, while many of the isolated cases could be the result of TBDs (and other pathogens).

Investigation into TBDs could lead to major breakthroughs for some patients, but not others. Similarly, breakthroughs in the area of autoimmunity could explain many cases of ME, but possibly not all. We need to research all these areas until we've sorted out what ME really is AND what is causing other conditions that might now fall under the ME/CFS umbrella.

 

[duncan]

Agreed, @SOC . I was just giving Cort a hard time.

 

[SOC]

Agreed, @SOC . I was just giving Cort a hard time.

 

[msf]

The clusters might not be caused by viruses either. Prof. Edwards has talked about the possibility of a Reactive Arthritis-like ME - some of the clusters may be caused by the intracellular bacteria that trigger ReA.

 

[SOC]

The clusters might not be caused by viruses either. Prof. Edwards has talked about the possibility of a Reactive Arthritis-like ME - some of the clusters may be caused by the intracellular bacteria that trigger ReA.

Certainly, assuming those intracellular bacteria are sufficiently contagious to cause outbreaks of the magnitude of the Lake Tahoe, Royal Free, etc outbreaks. Any pathogen that can be transmitted readily and rapidly could be a culprit in the outbreaks. My wild guess is that those outbreaks may turn out to be enteroviral, but who knows?

 

[Bob]

Does anyone know if they'll be looking for antibodies or active virus or both? And how many samples will they be testing? I couldn't see any details. And could Dr Lipkin's new universal test for pathogens be used for a study like this?

 

[duncan]

Will they be looking for simply evidence of exposure?

So, to follow-up on Bob's question, if they check many ME/CFS samples to see what portion is CDC 2T positive for Lyme, I suspect the number will be low. But if they check for any single antibody specific to Bb...then things could get interesting on the Lyme side of the effort. Ditto for some of the other TBD's.

Going back to my earlier point, though, if there is no way Borrelia can be tied into cluster outbreaks, why are they looking at Borrelia - and other TB pathogens - that cannot be responsible for cluster outbreaks? The stated goal of this effort is to drill down on the cluster phenomenon. They are not interested in the one-off ME/CFS patient that might have arisen from a Lyme infection.

Or am I misreading the intent of the study?

 

[msf]

Well, three of them are I imagine as transmissible as enterovirus, as they are also transmitted by the fecal-oral route.

 

[MeSci]

Why can't Borrelia or other vector-borne diseases occur in outbreaks? Isn't a concentration of vectors carrying a specific pathogen a prime suspect for an outbreak?

This page says

ECDC evaluates the risk to the EU of emerging vector-borne diseases by issuing risk assessments on outbreaks occurring in Europe or EU overseas territories

EDIT

And this page says

WHO responds to vector-borne diseases by:

• providing the best evidence for controlling vectors and protecting people against infection;
• providing technical support and guidance to countries so that they can effectively manage cases and outbreaks;

Have I misunderstood something?

 

[duncan]

Which three, msf?

MeSci, if Borrelia can only be transmitted by ticks - I'm not saying that is true - how can clusters occur?

Now, if Knox and Company eschew conventional metrics, and simply search for evidence of exposure...And they find a high percentage of PWME have at least one Bb-specific (or any other TB bacteria etc) antibody, then we may be onto something. We may be onto evidence which could suggest a different mode of infection for Bb. We also could be looking at moving from infectious to contagious, and that would turn lots of worlds upside down, and cause lots of text-books to be re-written. Many IDSA peeps - and several renowned academians - would be looking for new jobs, too.