Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Tom Kindlon, Sep 1, 2013.
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This study has some immune data which is interesting enough on its own. The controls were matched for age and gender.
Although the paper named in this thread isn't available open access, I believe, the following is available for free. Having a quick look at it, it looks very similar to the Lattie et al. paper. The difference is the symptoms looked at aren't fatigue. (Reading Lattie et al., I had thought it might be interesting to see whether any of these relationships exist for other symptoms.
This is making my head hurt. So this research suggests that because my IL-6 value of 1.5 (~65%ile) is normal, my perceived stress management skills are unrelated to my fatigue, but that if I had higher IL-6 my stress management skills would affect my fatigue..?
This table is interesting in that the mean of the CFS patients is within the range of of the controls, except for the IL-6. The means of the CFS patients are not hugely different from the controls. What seems significantly different is the ranges on IL-1beta, IL-6, and TNF-alpha.
I wonder if Drs Fletcher, Klimas, et al are finding any subsets based on immune data.
Stress management skills, neuroimmune processes and fatigue levels in persons with chronic fatigue syndrome.
Lattie EG, Antoni MH, Fletcher MA, Penedo F, Czaja S, Lopez C, Perdomo D, Sala A, Nair S, Fu SH, Klimas N.
Brain Behav Immun. 2012 Aug;26(6):849-58.
Thanks for posting, Tom.
Actually, the article has free access:
Thanks. An example of Google Scholar not finding all free full texts.
Hey people, don't you get it, if you're sicker than someone else it's only because you're incompentently managing your emotional stress, nothing to do with severety, progression, pathology subgroup, medical a or social practical support. Whereas the people with a good outcome are reaping the just rewards of their own diligent responsibility as superior patients via the biopsychosocial HPA axis. We do live in a just world after all -- as long as you personally make it so for yourself!!1!!!!!!!!1!!!!
If only we could educate all these irresponsible, personal-psychology-neglectful, non-mindfulness people to manage their emotional reactions better, it wouldn't matter whatever it is that they're reacting to (and that would be much cheaper for everyone else). Rather than bother wasting money on chasing mysterious disease processes that would surely be a different thing than what we're fascinated by (fatigue and cytokines), we could efficiently target emotional-husbandry-CBT into tweaking the various functional cytokines into making them more worthy, less tired, tired people, while they're doing my good colleague's GET.
Therer's no such thing as an uncircumventable problem, patients must learn to rise above anything via their own bootstraps, disease pathology (too mysterious for us to find yet), neglect, misunderstanding and poverty are feeble excuses in order to choose to remain stressed and sick (or at least fatigued, it's all the same). Their minds should as necessary become disconnected from their bodies and circumstances only in the strress management model manner, so that they can remain impassive, serene in the face of our dismal research failures.
Do they perhaps mean that patients experiencing less emotional distress and fatigue show greater PSMS and the influence of emotional distress and fatigue on stress management skills appears greatest among patients who have elevated IL-6 levels?
They mention at least once that all measures taken at one moment in time so it's not clear the direction like you say.
I don't think there's anything novel in the idea that people with better stress management skills have less emotional distress and/or depression. Nor is it novel to suggest that emotional distress/depression can exhibit as some form of fatigue. I wouldn't say it's the same kind of fatigue as the the crushing physical and mental exhaustion I've had with ME/CFS (and I've had both, so I think I can compare).
What's interesting (and unclear to me) is the correlation with IL-6. Is it that IL-6 somehow impairs a person's stress management skills? Or that people with poor stress management skills somehow generate more IL-6? Are they suggesting they can judge who would benefit from psychotherapy to improve stress management skills by measuring IL-6? My head still hurts.
That's what they're suggesting as I recall.
These were baseline measurements for a trial so they should be able to test the hypothesis.
Well that's interesting and kinda cool -- an actual objective measure for the need for a specific type of psychotherapy (stress management and coping with chronic illness).
I'm really happy my IL-6 is as normal as normal can be.
I wonder if stress is the chicken or egg. I notice my stress tolerance getting better or worse for many reasons. Worse when I have poorer sleep or worse nutrition, don't take vit D3, when I have more fatigue because I am upset about doing even less that day, etc.
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