globalpilot
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No, I said that based on his significant response to the antibiotics. Of course, we can never be completely sure of anything.
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Quick update:
Been on oral vanc for strep overgrowth. Started 125mg three times a day last week. No change in symptoms yet. Going to take a week off, then restart for another week.
Anyone else tried this before? Anyone have experience with using erythromycin as bioscreen recommends?
I finished the week of vanc, and symptoms probably became worse during the week. Also sleep became worse, and probably more anxious too. Not sure if it was die off of strep, or maybe I just killed off all the remaining good bacteria?
I took a lot of probiotics, but wasnt very strict with my diet.
So then I took 1 week off antibiotics, and yesterday started 1 week of erythromycin 250mg twice daily. At the same time I will take 125mg vanc 1 or 2 times a day every second day during this week. Symptoms a bit better maybe... but it could be the usual fluctuations.
I decided to start erythromycin again, because I felt a little better last time I took it. Also I have read from peoples experience that they often require several lots of antibiotics before symptoms begin to improve.
Something that I am also learning is that strep doesnt need to be killed completely, it just needs to be suppressed, and the other bacteria need to be given a chance to grown. For this reason, I am hoping that large doses of antibiotics are not needed.
Overall from the time I started trying antibiotics, I would say that I have seen some mild improvement. I will repeat a stool test by bioscreen at the end of this month to see if I have made any improvement in bacteria levels. I suspect that my strep levels are slightly better, but still very high. I believe that once bacteria levels are normal, then symptoms should improve immediately or soon after.
The other thing you need to consider is your immune system. The immune system can not rid the body of these bacteria. It seems the bacteria protease causes an IgA antibody and inflammatory response but the bacteria has some mechanism for beating the antibodies making the antibodies practically useless. So once these bacteria have broken through the gut, they can take up residence in the bodies lymphatic system and create havoc internally, and there they will stay for an eternity because the body has no way of removing them. Therefore, one can never be totally cured of this condition unless these bugs are removed from the lymphatic system.
I can't remember whether you provided any links to show that the bugs are in the lymphatic system. If you did, can you post it/again here? Thanks.
Hi MeSci,
I got a couple of things for you .... You mentioned something about the blood/brain barrier in another thread ... Viridans strep species cause 'increased capillary permeability' .... The most extreme case being Kawasaki Syndrome ...
http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/39/5/352.full.pdf
Viridans Strep induces cytokine release
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC281309/
And this paper shows how streptococcus spreads throughout the lymphatic system, under experimentation ...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1319547/
Mims mentions lymphatic system invasion by strep
https://www.inkling.com/read/mims-m...i-5th/chapter-15/mechanisms-of-spread-through
And here is an abstract showing that IgA antibodies are ineffective against Strep sanguinis species that produce protease ..... so once the strep get in there ... the body can't get them out ...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9492177
And this is what I personally have right now ...
http://www.kau.edu.sa/Files/0004338/Researches/49119_20029.pdf
There is something that I am just going to put on the table ....
When you have a streptococcus overgrowth in the stomach, it is usually never on its own. They form biofilms with other faculative anaerobes lactobacillus and enterococcus being the most common .... this causes a change in the colon because of super oxide production .... it therefore kills off the anaerobes because of high oxygen levels .... What makes the strep so dangerous is its resilience, hydrogen peroxide production and its protease expression. It seems that antibiotics are like steroids for strep and the more times that strep is hit with antibiotics, the stronger these bacteria become. Their biofilms become stronger, their resistance to antibiotics becomes stronger and the damage they do to the host becomes worse. It is like a dog attack, the more you struggle to get rid of the dog .... the harder it bites .....
The other thing you need to consider is your immune system. The immune system can not rid the body of these bacteria. It seems the bacteria protease causes an IgA antibody and inflammatory response but the bacteria has some mechanism for beating the antibodies making the antibodies practically useless. So once these bacteria have broken through the gut, they can take up residence in the bodies lymphatic system and create havoc internally, and there they will stay for an eternity because the body has no way of removing them. Therefore, one can never be totally cured of this condition unless these bugs are removed from the lymphatic system. It seems to be the IgA antibodies and the superantigens released because of these bugs can cause the auto-immune condition.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1808794/
There are also other things like acidosis, mitochondrial H2S poisoning, LPS & LTA poisoning, and other toxins coming in through the feces which I have found to disappear once the bugs are killed off in the gut ....
I can say from personal experience that these bacteria have been playing havoc with me for a couple of years (Mucosal inflammation) .... it wasn't until they got into my gut and broke through my intestine walls that all these problems began .... And now everything other than the auto-immune symptoms have gone after the abx treatment ..
I just struggle to understand why so many so called learned people who are supposedly 'researching' this disease has not seen these links .... all the science is there.
Here is the interesting thing, B-type retrovirus, Mono and EBV act in a similar way ....
Antibiotics would make the strep more resistant to further antibiotic treatment, due to natural selection and gene sharing etc. But I dont see how antibiotics can make bacteria become more virulent?
Virulence factors encoded on mobile genetic elements spread through horizontal gene transfer, and can convert harmless bacteria into dangerous pathogens.
The relationship between a host and a pathogen is dynamic, since each modifies the activities and functions of the other. The outcome of such a relationship depends on the virulence of the pathogen and the relative degree of resistance or susceptibility of the host, due mainly to the effectiveness of the host defense mechanisms.
Thanks for the info. I recognise that bacteria can share virulence genes as they can also share genes for antibiotic resistance. However I am not familiar that antibiotics causes sharing of virulence genes between bacteria.
Thanks for the info. I recognise that bacteria can share virulence genes as they can also share genes for antibiotic resistance. However I am not familiar that antibiotics causes sharing of virulence genes between bacteria.
This review considers how bacterial virulence and fitness are affected by antibiotic resistance and also how the relationship between virulence and resistance is affected by different genetic mechanisms
http://cmr.asm.org/content/26/2/185.abstract
Full text behind paywall
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/53/6/576.full
The Interface Between Antibiotic Resistance and Virulence in Staphylococcus aureus and Its Impact Upon Clinical Outcomes
Thanks for the links. I hadnt read up on these before. I never liked the use of antibiotics, as they have so many negative effects on the body as well as good flora also. However, without many other options somtimes we have to resort to these. I would prefer using only herbs and more gentle options, but I am not sure that these will work, or work fast enough... I was actually hoping for a more dramatic change as elph experienced.
Also Elph, just thinking about the lymphatic issue. From a really basic perspective it would seem ok if the strep is in the lymphatics, as antibiotics can get into there. Also when we have infections it is quite normal for bacteria and viruses to be taken there so antibodies can be created for them. Im not overly familiar with this aspect though. Can you explain why its a problem?