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Streptococcus overgrowth

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Gary1001, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi Knackers,
    These bugs do produce cytolysins (such as pneumolysin) which are known neurotoxins.
    These are pure sugar fermenting bugs that are prolific producers of lactic acid and Hydrogen Sulphide.
    They can live for up to 70 days in a hibernated state in your body without food. They can live for up to 40 days on your kitchen bench or door knob. The best you can do is reduce their numbers through diet to a point where you can reduce your symptoms, not cure the disease. They still cause the auto-immune response, even in low numbers.

    BUT! I take 1 Tbs of psyllium husks mixed with 2 Tbs of apple cider vinegar and 1 Tbs of olive oil every morning. I have often wondered if I ate nothing but that for 3 months .... would that kill them off?? Acetic acid is a natural bug killer.

    Their skins are an exotoxin ( lipoteichoic acids) so killing them off will poison your system initially possibly causing an increase in symptoms.

    The only way to cure this is to hit these bugs with serious antibiotics. I keep seeing so many posts where people stop and start antibiotic regimes. Streptococcus/enterococcus can very quickly become resistant to antibiotics, especially macroloids if they aren't eradicated during the first treatment .... subsequent treatment with the same antibiotic is useless.

    What I am saying is if you are going to take these bugs out, you gotta be serious about it and if you have had multiple antibiotics previously, then you are going to need daily IV or injections of up to 3 different antibiotics.
    Gentamycin (4 - 6 weeks) + Doxycyclene (100mg 2 x day) + Azithromycin (250mg/day 5 days per week) for up to 6 months. Some penicillin can also be of use instead of doxycyclene.

    But if you have had repeated exposure of clindamycin, erythromycin, clarithromycin, azithromycin or any other macroloid, then you need to get really serious.

    Getting really serious is something like Ramoplanin (8 -12 weeks) + Daptomycin (8 - 12 weeks) + Streptomycin/Gentomycin (4 - 6 weeks) or longer if possible.

    There are lots of different drugs such as vancomycin, linezoid, tiglecyclene avelox, cipro etc. but again, you pretty well only have 1 shot then they are useless.

    I really suggest that people start looking into whether they have these bugs, and an anti-DNase B antibody test is a good start. Working collaboratively and collecting some common data so we can educate the medico's how to take these bugs out properly is the key. This shotgun approach is just making it worse because the bugs are building resistance because of inappropriate treatment ..... Just my 2 bits worth.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
    Jon_Tradicionali likes this.
  2. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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  3. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi Knackers,

    They are pathogenic strains .... they cause an auto-immune response and the development of antibodies. Many of us start off with a chronic sore throat and/or swollen glands in the neck .... It takes pathogenic bacteria to do this. The reason throat swabs are negative is because the species that cause this are not considered pathogenic, they are considered normal flora. This is the undetectable infection. They are non pyogenic (non puss forming) all as you see is a slight inflammation, but you and your body see it differently. It is a multi-bacteria infection.

    They create an environment toxic to good bacteria.

    You would pretty much have to eat only fats and pure protein to remove sugars .....

    I have high strep antibodies, I have only just found this out ..... My kidneys are passing protein, my ankles, hands and face are swollen .... I have no choice now but to remove the bacteria from my system or I will be dead within 5 years ....

    Sterilising the gut is long term antibiotics treatment ......
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  4. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Yep but are they the same bugs that are considered normal flora that show up in standard fecal gut profile tests or different strains with the same name that you would need the DNase antibody test for?
  5. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    They are the same bugs ..... but the DNase B antibody test further supports the diagnosis.
  6. Jon_Tradicionali

    Jon_Tradicionali Senior Member

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    Zogor-Ndreaj, Shkodër, Albania
    I've previously looked imto strep specifically and know it as an immunosuppressor. But you are saying that it is these bugs that cause CFS?

    Have you eradicated these bugs and if so has this "cured" you?
  7. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi Jon,

    I have high levels of Streptococcus, enterococcus, lactobacillus, coliforms, eubacterium, and bifidobacterium. These are all carbohydrate fermenting bugs. They produce high levels of lactic acid and hydrogen sulphide, they also increase intestinal permeability allowing small and large molecules to pass through (leaky gut). I have been on a regime of antibiotics for the past 24 days (vancomycin + amoxycillin/clauvinate + ciprofloxican + azithromycin, 4 days left to go) and I am only eating meat, eggs, fish, psyllium husk, apple cider vinegar, sodium bicarbonate, raw garlic, ginger and xylitol. This is the results so far:

    I am a totally different person. My energy levels are close to normal, I am back in the gym (just low levels of cardio), PEM is gone, my muscles are no longer sore, the sore throat has gone, burning nose and eyes has gone, I still have pins and needles all over my body (I believe it is the enterococcus that is doing this), I have uninterrupted sleep .... for 6+ hours, the photophobia has gone, the glands in my neck have reduced, the dizziness and faintness has gone (I used to run into things when I stood up from rest, or got out of bed), the smelly farts have gone, I haven't had a muscle spasm/twitch for at least 2 weeks, I am now just really tired, but it is a normal tiredness (I have had months of very little sleep) I can think clearly, my vision has improved, the ringing in my ears has reduced, my BP and blood sugar levels have reduced, joint pain has gone .... my joints are just really crunchy now ..... my prostate pain has almost disappeared, the ulcers in my mouth and on my tongue have gone ..... I still have burning feet, but the burning in my lower legs and hands has gone, the reflux is now only mild, my restricted breathing has gone (it was very wheezy), I haven't had heart palpitations for a couple of weeks, I am calmer, the really aggressive feeling I had has gone, along with the overwhelming fear (like panic attacks) has gone .....

    I am completely starving all the sugar fermenting bacteria along with the abx. I am only eating eggs, red meat, chicken, fish and pork, psyllium husk, fresh raw garlic, ginger and xylitol (strep does not like these). I will eat like this for another month after the abx is finished, then I am going onto phase 1 of the Atkins program .......

    My mind clarity has improved to the point where I am nearly normal again .....

    I am praying that I am doing enough to kill these bas*&%#$ and I keep improving from here .......
    maryb and Christopher like this.
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    Pennsylvania
    So you are even avoiding vegetables due to their carbohydrate content?
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Senior Member

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    Sorry, but how do you survive without carbs?!
  10. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Very well .... The body not only survives, but is in fact more efficient on a fat/protein based diet .....

    What do you think the eskimo's live on??

    Cheers,

    Darren.
  11. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Yes Christopher .... nothing at all with carbohydrates .....

    When the body converts to fats as a fuel source, it works a lot better ...

    Then I will add in leafy green vegetables and berries later on ....

    Cheers,

    Darren.
  12. PathogenKiller

    PathogenKiller

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    Watch out for candida to take over. You are setting it up perfectly.
  13. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Candida doesn't like sodium bicarbonate .... I am taking 1tsp in water three times per day ...

    Cheers.
  14. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @Elph68
    anti-DNase B antibody test

    Do you know who does this test?
  15. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    It is part of the ASOT streptococcus antibody test ...

    Any lab does them. Just be mindful that there are so many genetic mutations of these bacteria, any particular strain may not carry the DNASE B genes.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  16. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Could you explain this please. What is he doing that is setting up for candida? Doesn't candida feed on carbs?
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  17. PathogenKiller

    PathogenKiller

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    I've known fungus doesn't need carbs for a long time, but not what it does use. I guess Paul Jaiments says ketones, which make sense and has some science behind it.

    I did a very similar exercise to this one and neglected the candida at my peril. I think candida needs systematic attack and am not sure that hyphal systemic yeast would be phased by baking soda and vinegar in my body. That abx mix is fungi static atleast, maybe fungicidal, but once its done a long term restricted carb diet + a candida issue can become a problem for some.

    Your mileage may vary
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  18. end

    end Senior Member

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    I underwent a similar protocol for three months

    Very low/no carbs Cipro Klacid + Doxycycline

    The end result - Severe yeast/fungi infections hitting me all at once

    Oral thrush(positive throat swob)
    Tinea(feet & hands)
    Genital(cottage cheese) I know gross, right! :)
    GI(stool sample 5+ positive)

    Major increase in anxiety/wired feeling, loss of sense of smell, chronic insomnia, sweat smelling STRONGLY of ammonia ever since

    Worst protocol ever, well for me anyway
  19. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    Hi end,

    that protocol could have killed good flora allowing strep/enterococcus to proliferate. insomnia is a sign of these overgrowth .... Melbourne University is studying that now ...

    Cheers.
  20. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    When is Melbourne uni study due to be released?

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