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Streptococcus overgrowth

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
Do you believe it should be okay to take before moving on to antibiotics?
Personally, I took capsules 3x per day for 12 months after I had abx. But I didn't have a doctor that knew anything about this .....

Your doctor sounds like they are interested in helping you so you are way in front of a lot of us .... Would be better to discuss concerns/outcome with them ..... And this is all still trial and error ......
 

Tammy

Senior Member
Messages
2,176
Location
New Mexico
Has anyone managed to overcome their Strep?
My strep infection is almost gone using goldenseal 2 wks on 2 wks off.............lots of garlic (for biofilms), lots of thyme tea, oregano oil, vit. C, zinc, olive leaf . I also had to stay off wheat.....even very little GF, and dairy.
 
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outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
My strep infection is almost gone using goldenseal 2 wks on 2 wks off.............lots of garlic (for biofilms), lots of thyme tea, oregano oil, vit. C, zinc, olive leaf . I also had to stay off wheat.....even very little GF, and dairy.

Did you get a lot of die-off symptoms?
 

Thinktank

Senior Member
Messages
1,640
Location
Europe
Depends who you talk to ..... It seems to be the biofilm forming ones that cause the most grief ..... And they aren't so much pathogenic, it is more about them taking over and putting things out of balance by producing too many toxins ...

Ok. Well, on my PCR DNA stool analysis from REDLABS it shows an increased growth of streptococcus, but it doesn't mention which strain. It's probably the total count of the streptococcus gender.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Hi Elph (or any others),

I called Dr Froomes (the gastro I saw -- who does FMT) and asked what antibiotics he'd prescribed as part of his 'IBS program' for my dysbiosis. They said Rifaximin and Vancomycin and I was excited given what I'd read about Rifaximin and CFS.

However, when I called the compounding pharmacy today, the script is for Flagyl, Ampicillin and Nystatin. I'm assuming this is kind of a broad solution to kill whatever's going on in the gut (rather than Strep specifically) .. and I think the antibiotics are only given for a week, which doesn't sound long enough based on what Elph has written.

Should I still go ahead and try the Flagyl and Ampicillin? Will these hit the Strep and at least give me an idea of whether that's an avenue to go down for me?
 

Kitsune

Senior Member
Messages
136
Just wondering where those without a physician's help get their antibiotics from? I'm in the UK and have some Mutaflor on order, along with a yogurt maker and some almond milk; I'm going to try culturing it, along with a no-carb diet (3 days or more - I came across a figure of 80 hours somewhere, though this is all guesswork for me). I would like to add in an antibiotic like erythromycin but I'm not sure I'd be able to source it.

Just for some brief info, I've tried just about everything under the sun for my CFS without much joy (apart from ending up with a supplement regime that enables me to function), so would like to have a go at this. I've been on a good clean low-carb diet for the past 4 months and have only just realised that the sauerkraut I've been eating seems to have given me a lot of problems; I know from past experience that lactic acid-producing bacteria make me feel worse, so I should have known really. That's what led me in this direction recently.

Added in edit: Mind you, maybe I shouldn't be asking such questions. I don't want to get anyone in trouble. So used to DIY now that I don't think about these things sometimes.
 
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Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
Hi Elph (or any others),

I called Dr Froomes (the gastro I saw -- who does FMT) and asked what antibiotics he'd prescribed as part of his 'IBS program' for my dysbiosis. They said Rifaximin and Vancomycin and I was excited given what I'd read about Rifaximin and CFS.

However, when I called the compounding pharmacy today, the script is for Flagyl, Ampicillin and Nystatin. I'm assuming this is kind of a broad solution to kill whatever's going on in the gut (rather than Strep specifically) .. and I think the antibiotics are only given for a week, which doesn't sound long enough based on what Elph has written.

Should I still go ahead and try the Flagyl and Ampicillin? Will these hit the Strep and at least give me an idea of whether that's an avenue to go down for me?
that is a pretty broad spectrum treatment .... It depends on what these guys consider are the problem ..... I can assure you that you don't want to kill everything off because it does make you real sick ....I have seen that other FMT clinics work a bit different than CDD does here in Australia ..... Best to ask the doctor why he/she chose this protocol ...

Ampicillin should knock down strep .....
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
that is a pretty broad spectrum treatment .... It depends on what these guys consider are the problem ..... I can assure you that you don't want to kill everything off because it does make you real sick ....I have seen that other FMT clinics work a bit different than CDD does here in Australia ..... Best to ask the doctor why he/she chose this protocol ...

Ampicillin should knock down strep .....

I don't know if he prescribed it specifically for my stool results or not -- I think it's part of a general IBS program he offers -- but I did have the anaerobic overgrowths (Strep, Prevotella) and read that Flagyl and Ampicillin will kill those.

Do you mean killing everything off makes you sick because of die-off, or because you may be killing off beneficial stuff too?
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Okay, start abx. today. It's Flagyl 2x per day, and Ampicillin SR 3x per day; not sure about the exact doses.

I'm guessing it's normal to feel kind of awful? I spoke to the GI's nurse and she said they typically recommend trying to tough it out (though they're dealing more with IBS/dysbiosis, as opposed to CFS per se), and then halving the doses if you're still struggling.

What I've noticed are more frequent bowel movements (foul-smelling/thick diarrhea), with increased weakness, head pressure, tinnitus, depression etc. It's hard to separate 'die-off' from my usual symptoms, since they're so bad anyway.
 
Messages
8
Location
Sydney Aus
Okay, start abx. today. It's Flagyl 2x per day, and Ampicillin SR 3x per day; not sure about the exact doses.

I'm guessing it's normal to feel kind of awful? I spoke to the GI's nurse and she said they typically recommend trying to tough it out (though they're dealing more with IBS/dysbiosis, as opposed to CFS per se), and then halving the doses if you're still struggling.

What I've noticed are more frequent bowel movements (foul-smelling/thick diarrhea), with increased weakness, head pressure, tinnitus, depression etc. It's hard to separate 'die-off' from my usual symptoms, since they're so bad anyway.

I initially took Ampicillin SR 3x per day for Strep Overgrowth and I had similar symptoms, a lot of fatigue and apathy, felt terrible.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
I initially took Ampicillin SR 3x per day for Strep Overgrowth and I had similar symptoms, a lot of fatigue and apathy, felt terrible.

Did you end up continuing with the Ampicillin or discontinuing? My guess was I'll have to feel worse before I feel better .. so just trying to deal with it.
 
Messages
8
Location
Sydney Aus
Did you end up continuing with the Ampicillin or discontinuing? My guess was I'll have to feel worse before I feel better .. so just trying to deal with it.

Ampicillin for 1 month then Erythromycin for 1.5 months, pulsed treatment so 1 week on and 1 off.

Bioscreen and Mr Dr both told me it's normal to feel terrible for at least the first few days due to die off. I didn't start feeling actual benefits from the treatment until I started the Erythromycin.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Ampicillin for 1 month then Erythromycin for 1.5 months, pulsed treatment so 1 week on and 1 off.

Bioscreen and Mr Dr both told me it's normal to feel terrible for at least the first few days due to die off. I didn't start feeling actual benefits from the treatment until I started the Erythromycin.

Did you feel better once treatment had ended? I'm doing my best to push through, but really am in hell right now; the psychological symptoms (depression etc.) are really intense.

Also, this is really gross, but for anyone reading -- do you know what could cause 'fruity' smelling stools? Is this related to die-off? I've done coffee enemas, which produce a very strong-smelling stool, but that was more acrid. The smell with the abx. is different though -- it's fruity, but still toxic (i.e. I almost gagged when smelling it). My urine is also very 'fruity' smelling.
 
Messages
8
Location
Sydney Aus
Sounds like rough die off, I've heard it gets pretty bad for some people have you tried activated charcoal? When I spoke to Bioscreen they told me it's common for people to want to give up in the first 3-4 days as it gets pretty bad. My die off wasn't as bad as yours and got better quickly (I hope this doesn't mean my strep was immune to the abx).
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Sounds like rough die off, I've heard it gets pretty bad for some people have you tried activated charcoal? When I spoke to Bioscreen they told me it's common for people to want to give up in the first 3-4 days as it gets pretty bad. My die off wasn't as bad as yours and got better quickly (I hope this doesn't mean my strep was immune to the abx).

Haven't used charcoal, though I have some. I'm also taking Nystatin with the abx. (to prevent yeast overgrowth -- though I think I already have Candida issues) and that compounds the die-off significantly. Today's day 6 of abx. but symptoms haven't eased up at all. It's possible some of my 'die-off' could just be side-effects of Flagyl, since I've read it can induce depression.
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
Antibiotics just wipe out everything and don't improve the environment.. we need to build the good flora to overcome strep and everything else, at least that's my understanding.