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Streptococcus overgrowth

Messages
54
Location
New York
@Crux I have trichotillomania too. It waxes and wanes but has been pretty bad these past two years. It came on out of no where after 2 rounds of the Hep B vaccine when I was 11. I actually plucked every last one of my eye lases out when it first started. After every vaccine it would get worse for a couple of months. It's the weirdest compulsion but I can't help it. Glad to hear some of your symptoms are better.
 
Messages
54
Location
New York
@Crux actually I always test borderline low on b12 but I can't tolerate it. It causes nervous system inflammation. I'm hoping that once I get these infections under control and things get a chance to calm down I will be able to try it again because I know I need it.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
@Noellea77 ,

Bad news about the B12. Did you try hydroxocobalamin too? It's less nervy.

What is your program now? I remember you're struggling with anxiety. Mine is better now, but sometimes it gets worse with antibiotics for a time, then better when I finish the course.

I realize 5-htp or tryptophan, or gaba, may only work for some people, but abx can lower them. ( Abx can lower estrogens too.)
 
Messages
54
Location
New York
@Crux I've tried hydroxo as well. I had high hopes but it still causes the inflammation. Not as bad as methyl but still noticeable. I can't say that I really have a program. I'm always trying new things. I've tried all the aminos, pretty much anything you can think of. I never notice enough of a benefit to justify the cost. My life is such right now that I can pretty much control the situations that I'm in so I'm not facing a ton of anxiety everyday. Unfortunately it means staying in the house a lot which is no way to live. It's so frustrating that we know what is causing it but still struggle to find the solution.

How is your anxiety on a daily basis? Manageable?
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
@Noellea77 ,

Well, I hope it gets better for you. Finding the right amount of interaction is hard. ( I didn't think about it until I was forced.)

I'm around the house and yard. The more ill I grew, the more I realized limitations.
Withdrew from people who were not friends, mostly everyone. lol
My husband has become a great friend.

Yes, the anxiety is manageable now, because I avoid stressors, don't socialize much. Not really the best way to be, but much better than previous life. Tbh, I prefer more solitude.

If I find something, I'll be sure to tell. Can't hold back.

Taking the activated charcoal has been good. Will add it in once or twice weekly.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
@Noellea77 ,

The activated charcoal did help with inflammation. It removes LPS endotoxin, which may help to lower inflammatory cytokines such as TNF- alpha. ( at least in animal testing)

It does have some antimicrobial activity against staph a. and e coli., but , I didn't find anything about AC activity against strep.

I wonder if the inflammation you experienced when trying B12 was due to its role as a growth stimulant for other microbes, such as Lactobacillus delbrueckii ? I'd forgotten that we're not the only organisms that need it.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
Hi all,

I've been reading about the bacterium, Lactococcus lactis. ( There are also subspecies, and endless engineered strains that researchers are creating.)

It produces some bacteriocins, antimicrobials such as nisin, that are active against some pathogenic bacteria, such as some strep. species.

https://books.google.com/books?id=J...nepage&q=nisin inhibits streptococcus&f=false

It also produces a protease inhibitor, elafin. Elafin has some anti-inflammatory properties.
@Elph68 , perhaps this microbe would help?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4371826/


I ordered a Mesophilic culture from a cheese making site, but I see that they don't ship internationally.
There are sites located in other countries, though, that sell these cultures, so it shouldn't be too hard to find them.

The culture I'm trying has three subspecies : Lactococus lactis subsp. lactis, Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris, and Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactic biovar diacetylactis.

This is only my second day trying this culture, so, I can't honestly say anything about it yet.

I added the culture to heavy cream, and in 18 hrs, it was ready. delicious
It can be added to milk, to make a kefir/buttermilk, etc.

These microbes are found in grasses, vegetables, etc. I read about a guy who made a kimchi from this culture, so if someone doesn't do dairy, perhaps a veg. culture would work.
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
@Noellea77 ,

Bad news about the B12. Did you try hydroxocobalamin too? It's less nervy.

What is your program now? I remember you're struggling with anxiety. Mine is better now, but sometimes it gets worse with antibiotics for a time, then better when I finish the course.

I realize 5-htp or tryptophan, or gaba, may only work for some people, but abx can lower them. ( Abx can lower estrogens too.)
@Crux @Noellea77 The research I have done suggests that anxiety can be due to a build up of acid around the brain. L-lactate is a food source for the brain wheras D-lactate is not .... CO2 has been found to act as an acid during hyperventallation resulting in panic attacks .... joining all the dots, too much acid, such as D-lactate rather than L-lactate causes the brain to struggle for energy ..... so in a panic situation, the brain quickly burns the L-lactate, leaving only D-lactate and CO2 ..... thus it starts to short circuit and enters the fight/flight response .....

Lactococcus lactis is mainly a L-lactate producer ....

Cheers.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
Lactococcus lactis is mainly a L-lactate producer ....

It is so much more than that. Besides, lactic acid itself, is not bad. Overproduction of it is.
Once we rid ourselves of pathogenic quantities of microbes, what then? We can't survive germ-free.

The goal is to reduce the Streptococcal species that overproduce lactic acid, H2O2, etc., and replace them with other lactic acid bacteria that produce anti-microbials, desired neurotransmitters, and much more.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378328/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3579206/
http://www.scientific-publications.net/get/1000010/1436529099420953.pdf

So, there are many desirable products from gut microbes we can utilize. I've been focused on Nisin, produced by Lactococcus Lactis, and other microbes, because it has good activity against a number of Streptococcal species.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jam.13033/full

Anxiety, many causes, infections , lack of beneficial microbes, etc.
http://www.omicsonline.org/open-acc...rodevelopmental-therapy-2329-8901-1000146.pdf
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
Anyone know which are the best biofilm disruptors? I have been on erythromycin for 6 weeks now, of that 4 weeks on 750mg. Things have improved a little bit, but still nowhere near where I was before I started using herbals to treat the dysbiosis (which completely messed me up).

I have interfase plus, monolaurin, bromelain in my supplement stash. The doc I'm seeing also mentioned kirkman labs biofilm defense. Do these make the antibiotics more effective?

I'm also going to try adding in ampicillin SR, but is using two antibiotics likely to be more effective?
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
Hi Renski- which herbals were the ones that messed you up?

Candibactin AR.. I developed the ringing in my ears while I was using this, and around that time insomnia started and anxiety became 100x worse. I can only assume it killed more of my good e.coli and introduced more strep into my system. The bioscreen tests just showed e.coli going down and strep increasing despite all of the herbals I'd used.
 
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PDXhausted

Senior Member
Messages
258
Location
NW US
@renski thats interesting, thanks. It just reminded me of another thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/paraprevotella-the-cause-of-my-atypical-me.45074/

Where @Cheesus developed worse symptoms after herbal antimicrobials... Although his gut test showed probably different results than you have. @Cheesus which herbs did you take that worsened your symptoms, I'm curious?

Since there isn't really any good research on how herbs affect the gut flora, it's interesting to see what people's experiences are.
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
@renski thats interesting, thanks. It just reminded me of another thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/paraprevotella-the-cause-of-my-atypical-me.45074/

Where @Cheesus developed worse symptoms after herbal antimicrobials... Although his gut test showed probably different results than you have. @Cheesus which herbs did you take that worsened your symptoms, I'm curious?

Since there isn't really any good research on how herbs affect the gut flora, it's interesting to see what people's experiences are.

Hi @PDXhausted,

Yeah I don't know what happened.. but my guess is they further killed my good e.coli. I don't know how we can be taking herbals without knowing the effects on all of the bacteria, like e.coli. I think my e.coli was already low, so in someone who has more normal levels of e.coli it might not be such a problem. Still very risky imo. So many practitioners are misdiagnosing and mistreating treating people with SIBO and dysbiosis. Seems I should have been taking Mutaflor from day one but I was being prescribed lactobacillus probiotics.
 

Cheesus

Senior Member
Messages
1,292
Location
UK
@renski thats interesting, thanks. It just reminded me of another thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/paraprevotella-the-cause-of-my-atypical-me.45074/

Where @Cheesus developed worse symptoms after herbal antimicrobials... Although his gut test showed probably different results than you have. @Cheesus which herbs did you take that worsened your symptoms, I'm curious?

Since there isn't really any good research on how herbs affect the gut flora, it's interesting to see what people's experiences are.

Oil of oregano. It wasn't that it made things worse, it actively triggered my ME! Need to be really careful when dealing with the microbiome.
 

PDXhausted

Senior Member
Messages
258
Location
NW US
@Cheesus @renski

That is interesting- oil of oregano is the main ingredient of Candibactin AR, I believe.

I've been on oil of oregano for several months now, along with two courses of Rifaximin for sibo. It helps with my upper gut overgrowth, but I can tell my colon is screwed up- i get a lot of inflammation from foods that I didn't have before, especially beef. I've also had an increase in light sensitivity and brain swelling recently. I'm about to do a ubiome test so we'll see how my flora looks. I should probably start to try and taper off the oregano oil anyway. SIBO is so frustrating in that the things that help it, usually screw up the colon flora. A very frustrating problem!