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Streptococcus overgrowth
- Thread starter Gary1001
- Start date
Hi @Noellea77, I've had some small improvements with anxiety/worry, but am getting other side effects from the ampicillin, like a hyper feeling, seems to make my sleep worse and is giving me intrusive thoughts.. just what I need. Am going to start another antibiotic in the next few days hopefully without the side effects.
How are you going?
Hi @Streppy,
The high levels of lactobacillus/strep and e-coli suggest lacic acidosis and LPS poisoning ..... both conditions have similar symptoms ......
Do you have diabetes in your family?
Cheers.
Last edited:
Hi Elph, did you mean to reply to me or Streppy?
No diabetes in the family, also I have low e.coli..
yeah .... Sorry .... I was looking at pdf files at the time ....
@renski I am doing about the same. I start feeling better until I fall off the strict diet and eat sugar/carbs. Dairy is the worst offender for me. I think elph really is onto something when he talked about adding bromelain. I can tell a difference when I take that with meals...My brain fog doesn't get nearly as bad after eating.
If I can just stop falling off the diet...
Sorry about the anxiety. Mine keeps me from leaving the house a lot of days. I'm always paranoid that people are talking about me/staring at me even though I know they're not. I always have a creepy feeling.
If I can just stop falling off the diet...
Sorry about the anxiety. Mine keeps me from leaving the house a lot of days. I'm always paranoid that people are talking about me/staring at me even though I know they're not. I always have a creepy feeling.
Hi Noella,
my research suggests that anxiety is due to a build up of lactic acid around the brain ..... D lactate is probably the main offender ..... The acid causes some calcification which results in a short circuit of the neurons, and also as the brain uses L lactate for fuel, it is basically starving .... A panic attack occurs when we shallow breath and the levels of carbon dioxide increase in the blood, this also acts as an acid around the brain causing an acute short circuit ... Magnesium supplement and bicarb of soda may help .... After i took vancomycin my anxiety and panic attacks disappeared ....
Cheers.
Hi renski,
have you tried drinking lactose free milk, or eating (3)dried figs?
I have a feeling that they could be a treatment for PEM .... if not, I know they will reduce fatigue and general tiredness.
I would be interested to see how they make you feel .....
Cheers.
.. Avoid sugar and fruit definitely, unsure about the rest of it.. I don't really notice anything from food unless I eat a ton of chocolate or something heavy in sugar.. that usually causes chronic anxiety/worry/depression for me. I guess I have the brain fog all the time so I don't notice either way.Hi Elph68,
I have about 250ml of lactose free milk everyday, have been doing that for the past 3-4 weeks.. I don't know what difference it's making, I do feel slightly better then my lowest point a month ago, but I've also been taking antibiotics so who knows.. I'm also eating 3-4x a week: green peas, shiitake mushrooms (saw your post in another thread - thanks), blueberries, capsicum, hazelnuts, tomatoes and avoiding foods like garlic, onions, basically fructo-oligosaccharides. No idea how much effect this is having but will keep doing it.
I still eat complex carbs for breakfast and dinner and some for morning tea/afternoon, I lost so much weight in the past year that I was going on anorexic and just had to start eating carbs again.. and now my strep is higher then ever I don't have a choice but to eat otherwise I could end up in hospital or dead.
I've started on Keflex today, so will see how that goes.
What's PEM btw?
FWIW I've found this bicarb soda product more tolerable then products like matrix alkali:
http://au.iherb.com/Alkalife-pH-Balance-90-Enteric-Coated-Tablets/49062
Like @Streppy, I'm seeing Dr Kenny in Brussels. I have Chronic Lyme but doctor says that's under control so now we're focussing on the gut. My biggest symptom is brain fog. I can't drive or work (programming) because of it.
January - March 2016
I have taken Clindamycine 300 mg 3 times a day for seven days and the rest of the month mutaflor 2 times a day. I had to repeat this two times for a total of three months. The first week with clindamycine my brain fog lifted and I had more energy. I felt almost normal again. Gradually the effect lessened in the weeks I took mutaflor. Sadly, the second month I took clindamycine it didn't have same effect as the first time. Already some resistance maybe?
My diet was: Chicken or meat, vegetables, some brown rice. Nuts as snacks. Sometimes an apple.
Three months later:
April - .. 2016
Now I'm taking Xifaxan(Rifaximin) 200 mg, 2 times a day until the next visit. So +- 3 months. (two from today)
I've read many good things about Xifaxan so my hopes where high. One month of xifaxan later, my expectations aren't met. Except that I'm starting to react badly when I eat brown rice. I actually think it's a yeast problem.
Because when I eat (too much) brown rice now:
The same symptons I always had when I ate potato chips or chocolate or fast food and I always these attributed to yeast.
When I took Itraconazole this summer, all the above symptoms disappeared so that's why I think it's yeast. Itraconazole stopped working after one month.
Before I started with Xifaxan I cheated on my diet by eating French Fries. My hands didn't get red/burning feeling and no usual extra brain fog I usually get after eating something like that. There was no reaction so that was progress! The next day I cheated again, potato chips and some cookies. I did get some mild reactions but they went away when starting the xifaxan. Three weeks later I came across this article which states that you shouldn't go on a low-fodmap / low-carb diet to starve the bacteria as that will make it harder to kill them. After reading that, I tried eating some cheese. No effects. The next day I tried eating some cheese with bread. That's when the overwhelming urge to eat sweets/potato chips/fast food/cookies came back and led to a 4 day binge eating fest *insert curse words*
That's where I'm now, one month after starting xifaxan with more brain fog than before thanks to my binge eating. And afraid I have undone the previouw months by a couple days of bad diet.
January - March 2016
I have taken Clindamycine 300 mg 3 times a day for seven days and the rest of the month mutaflor 2 times a day. I had to repeat this two times for a total of three months. The first week with clindamycine my brain fog lifted and I had more energy. I felt almost normal again. Gradually the effect lessened in the weeks I took mutaflor. Sadly, the second month I took clindamycine it didn't have same effect as the first time. Already some resistance maybe?
My diet was: Chicken or meat, vegetables, some brown rice. Nuts as snacks. Sometimes an apple.
Three months later:
- still some brain fog but fairly diminished
- sensitivity to sounds/noise gone
- depending on the days, 5 or 10 % more energy
- no more overwhelming urge to eat sweets/potato chips/fast food/cookies (from the second day of antibiotics actually)
April - .. 2016
Now I'm taking Xifaxan(Rifaximin) 200 mg, 2 times a day until the next visit. So +- 3 months. (two from today)
I've read many good things about Xifaxan so my hopes where high. One month of xifaxan later, my expectations aren't met. Except that I'm starting to react badly when I eat brown rice. I actually think it's a yeast problem.
Because when I eat (too much) brown rice now:
- I have cracked corners at my mouth
- My hand has a burning feeling
- My hand gets even more red than usual. So does my feet and knees.
- tongue is even more white
The same symptons I always had when I ate potato chips or chocolate or fast food and I always these attributed to yeast.
When I took Itraconazole this summer, all the above symptoms disappeared so that's why I think it's yeast. Itraconazole stopped working after one month.
Before I started with Xifaxan I cheated on my diet by eating French Fries. My hands didn't get red/burning feeling and no usual extra brain fog I usually get after eating something like that. There was no reaction so that was progress! The next day I cheated again, potato chips and some cookies. I did get some mild reactions but they went away when starting the xifaxan. Three weeks later I came across this article which states that you shouldn't go on a low-fodmap / low-carb diet to starve the bacteria as that will make it harder to kill them. After reading that, I tried eating some cheese. No effects. The next day I tried eating some cheese with bread. That's when the overwhelming urge to eat sweets/potato chips/fast food/cookies came back and led to a 4 day binge eating fest
*insert curse words* That's where I'm now, one month after starting xifaxan with more brain fog than before thanks to my binge eating. And afraid I have undone the previouw months by a couple days of bad diet.
Attachments
Hi folks;
I strongly suspect I'm battling some streptococcal ( S. pneumoniae ), species too. They're commonly found in oral, sinus, lung, ear infections, and more.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/225811-medication#2
I've been taking a variety of abx this past year,and have improved greatly gut wise , but the oral, sinus, lung, ear infection has been hard to rid.
Yesterday, I started a combination of vancomycin, and a third generation cephalosporin, cefixime. ( the only one available.)
Since it's only been one day, too early, but I slept really well, and the upper respiratory symptoms are better.
Also, I'm trying an off -label means of abx delivery into the sinuses. A capsule of vancomycin, dissolved into water, added to a sinus spray bottle. ( I've done this before with other abx.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25143711
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25084017
(I take 5-htp for some of the side -effects, pain and irritability. Zinc helps. B12 helps to an extent with the neuritis in the feet.)
Here's an article about vancomycin possibly reducing incidence of colitis induced CRC:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822119/
Thanks everyone, especially @Elph68
I strongly suspect I'm battling some streptococcal ( S. pneumoniae ), species too. They're commonly found in oral, sinus, lung, ear infections, and more.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/225811-medication#2
I've been taking a variety of abx this past year,and have improved greatly gut wise , but the oral, sinus, lung, ear infection has been hard to rid.
Yesterday, I started a combination of vancomycin, and a third generation cephalosporin, cefixime. ( the only one available.)
Since it's only been one day, too early, but I slept really well, and the upper respiratory symptoms are better.
Also, I'm trying an off -label means of abx delivery into the sinuses. A capsule of vancomycin, dissolved into water, added to a sinus spray bottle. ( I've done this before with other abx.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25143711
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25084017
(I take 5-htp for some of the side -effects, pain and irritability. Zinc helps. B12 helps to an extent with the neuritis in the feet.)
Here's an article about vancomycin possibly reducing incidence of colitis induced CRC:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822119/
Thanks everyone, especially @Elph68
Before I started with Xifaxan I cheated on my diet by eating French Fries. My hands didn't get red/burning feeling and no usual extra brain fog I usually get after eating something like that. There was no reaction so that was progress! The next day I cheated again, potato chips and some cookies. I did get some mild reactions but they went away when starting the xifaxan. Three weeks later I came across this article which states that you shouldn't go on a low-fodmap / low-carb diet to starve the bacteria as that will make it harder to kill them. After reading that, I tried eating some cheese. No effects. The next day I tried eating some cheese with bread. That's when the overwhelming urge to eat sweets/potato chips/fast food/cookies came back and led to a 4 day binge eating fest
That's where I'm now, one month after starting xifaxan with more brain fog than before thanks to my binge eating. And afraid I have undone the previouw months by a couple days of bad diet.
I don't know how lyme affects/complicates strep overgrowth in the gut, but eating good carbs (potatoes, rice/oats/grains, etc) is much more sensible then eating potato chips/biscuits/etc..
Anyone here have their genes tested by 23andme? If so, what do you have for TNF-308 rs1800629? I'm AA--about 2% of the population has AA. According to this study, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3758727/ having AA could be definitive for a diagnosis of PANDAS. Isn't that what we have, just as adults? It all ties into this gene causing really high levels of TNF-a in response to strep bacteria which, in turn, causes very high inflammation in the brain. Lactate is part of the brain dysfunction but I think inflammation is a big part of it too.
This really solidifies this for me. If you don't have this gene then you are lucky. I have to admit, I'm feeling a bit hopeless. This involves an autoimmune process that infects the brain and I have a dang gene that is causing it. I'm looking into TNF-alpha inhibitors. They are used for other autoimmune conditions, why wouldn't it work for this?
Noelle
This really solidifies this for me. If you don't have this gene then you are lucky. I have to admit, I'm feeling a bit hopeless. This involves an autoimmune process that infects the brain and I have a dang gene that is causing it. I'm looking into TNF-alpha inhibitors. They are used for other autoimmune conditions, why wouldn't it work for this?
Noelle
Of the 31 ME patients I have 23andMe data for and ethnically matched controls, only 3 are AG for rs1800629 and none are AA. Of the controls, 12 are AG and 1 is AA.
Not really. There might be one or two symptoms which are similar, but that's true of most diseases.
It's hypothesized to be an autoimmune disorder, but there's no evidence of that yet. At any rate, it's probably a good idea to find a doctor familiar with PANDAS, and see if they think it fits your symptoms. They would probably have some ideas for treatment as well.
@Valentijn thanks for for the info. I'm interested because I've been sick since I've been a teenager and I think I had Pandas but never got diagnosed. I still have 95% of the symptoms and never got better.
Maybe it's not an autoimmune disorder, just that the body responds to strep with a higher rate of inflammation in some people and that gene might explain why.
As far as asking "isn't this what we have?" I was just referring to the people on this sub forum with strep, not everyone with cfs/me.
Maybe it's not an autoimmune disorder, just that the body responds to strep with a higher rate of inflammation in some people and that gene might explain why.
As far as asking "isn't this what we have?" I was just referring to the people on this sub forum with strep, not everyone with cfs/me.
@Noellea77 ,
I'm a GG, so it's not a factor. I don't even have a diagnosis, strep-wise.
It's just so commonly found with infections, and the symptoms seem self - evident to me.
I'll just bring up that I've had ocd even before I can remember. ( Mother told me I would pull out my hair while waiting for food in the high chair.)
I remember it worsened right after a bout of conjunctivitis and uri as a child. More anxiety, more repetitive actions, insomnia, picky eating, etc.
Things are better now, but I will get tics if the infection grows.
So, you're not alone, but, hopefully, you don't have as many weird symptoms as I.
I'm a GG, so it's not a factor. I don't even have a diagnosis, strep-wise.
It's just so commonly found with infections, and the symptoms seem self - evident to me.
I'll just bring up that I've had ocd even before I can remember. ( Mother told me I would pull out my hair while waiting for food in the high chair.)
I remember it worsened right after a bout of conjunctivitis and uri as a child. More anxiety, more repetitive actions, insomnia, picky eating, etc.
Things are better now, but I will get tics if the infection grows.
So, you're not alone, but, hopefully, you don't have as many weird symptoms as I.
Well, the vancomycin/ cefixime combination was strong, such that I had to stop early. ( fierce diarrhea )
However, symptoms are better.
I learned a couple of things to pass on.
Taking activated charcoal really helped the neuritis in my feet and back pain, that I believe may be caused by endotoxin release. Pain would return after some hours from dosing. ( I'm taking ~ 6-8 gms. divided doses for a few days.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2032748
The bacterium. Lactococcus lactis, has some antimicrobial properties, including some strep. species. Nisin is one of the products Lactococcus lactis produces. It's found in some cheeses, yogurts, sour cream, etc.
I ordered a mesophilic culture that has L. lactis, but, I couldn't find a single strain. ( except for expensive lab supply)
It is a lactic acid bacteria, and it may not be the thing, but, I'll give it a try.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4471743/
However, symptoms are better.
I learned a couple of things to pass on.
Taking activated charcoal really helped the neuritis in my feet and back pain, that I believe may be caused by endotoxin release. Pain would return after some hours from dosing. ( I'm taking ~ 6-8 gms. divided doses for a few days.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2032748
The bacterium. Lactococcus lactis, has some antimicrobial properties, including some strep. species. Nisin is one of the products Lactococcus lactis produces. It's found in some cheeses, yogurts, sour cream, etc.
I ordered a mesophilic culture that has L. lactis, but, I couldn't find a single strain. ( except for expensive lab supply)
It is a lactic acid bacteria, and it may not be the thing, but, I'll give it a try.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4471743/