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Stimulants like provigil or nuvigil?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by fibrodude84, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. fibrodude84

    fibrodude84 Senior Member

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    Has anyone tried stimulants? Has it helped? My rheumatologist is going to try me on provigil to see if it helps with my lack of energy. How fast do they work?
     
    heapsreal likes this.
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I used them years ago (ritalin and others). My favorite was Focalin. I tried Provigil years ago and it didn't do much but I just asked my NP for it and she was fine with me trying it but she can't RX it so I'll have to ask my pcp.

    I think @heapsreal knows about this.
     
  3. kristysmiles

    kristysmiles

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    @fibrodude84
    My sleep doctor put me on provigil because my sleep latentcy test was abnormal and showed hypersomnia. It works to an extent, I would start at a low dose and work your way up. For some reason when it first got in to my system it seemed very effective and I had to cut my 100mg pills in half to be able to sleep at night. It slowly seems to work less and less though because now I am on 200mg twice a day (max clinical dose). I think the high dosage caused me to have a migraine at first, and if you look at the side effects the most common one is a headache so I'd be aware of that. Also, they have not done any studies about using Provigil in long-term situations.

    I honestly don't take my full my dose each day unless I'm extremely tired or have a lot of work to do closer to bedtime. If I wake up extremely tired, I will take my first one then. Sometimes I will wait until mid-morning or early afternoon and not take another, or if it's a weekend and I have nothing planned I might not even take one.
     
  4. kristysmiles

    kristysmiles

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    Should also mention that it doesn't take away the fatigue, but seems to give my brain this false bubble of energy. I can usually still feel the fatigue to an extent, it's just masked. Be careful of pushing yourself to much it if you suffer from post-exertion.
     
    Tito likes this.
  5. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

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    My experience with these CNS stimulant meds, including Provigil, is that I'm very sensitive to them and get really wired up, even at miniscule doses. I do feel much better on them the first few days, but continuing after that is dangerous for me because I've found that anything that pushes my system to work faster, including these stimulant drugs, will lead to a crash. For me, PEM can come from.....physical, mental, and chemical, overexertion....anything that stresses my system.

    I do use Ritalin on those days requiring much more of me, like a long drive, but I won't continue the drug after that. So for me, these drugs are great for "as needed" short term use only.

    Since we all react somewhat differently to these drugs, your experience may be quite different....so I would only recommend to start at a low dose and proceed cautiously and see how you do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    provigil/modafinil i use occassionally at low doses. i think using it intermittently also helps reduce tolerance which happens with every drug. I also only use a small dose of 50mg and this seems enough for cognitive improvement. I think its different to a stimulant type drug in that it doesnt hype me up other then the very first time i used it but it mostly feels like its switching on my brain. I dont find it helps you push physically, no real physical type of energy, maybe because of the low dose? If you read up on modafinil you will find its neuroprotective, maybe it has other ways to help deal with fatigue then traditional supplements??

    Of late im finding the same type of energy improvement with high doses of q10 and acetyl carnitine, finding i dont need modafinil as much to function for long periods of time. As of yesterday i have added ribose and creatine to my mitochondria concoction so we will see how that goes.

    Sometimes i find the bigger issue is pem, not neccessarily having energy. Example was with working, after day 1 i would feel fine and question myself if i really have any issues but the next day and a few days after this i would be knackered. SO i can see that those who are trying to hold down a job that the fatigue/pem builds throughout the working week, which is why many of us spend our time off in bed. This is becoming less and less of the scenario for me as i feel that the mito stuff is helping me recover enough to avoid PEM too, for now?
     
  7. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

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    @heapsreal ...... Yea, I think that's how Provigil is purported to work; It's supposed to cause mental alertness without the wiry feeling. I remember that it was commonly used by commercial pilots for that purpose. Probably most indicated for Narcolepsy. The stuff made me much too wirey...but then I'm ultra sensitive too drugs anyhow.
     
  8. fibrodude84

    fibrodude84 Senior Member

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    Thanks guys im thinking I do suffer from PEM but my diagnosis is fibro so far even though I think I have CFS. I am eager to try this but wish there was something with a better track record.
     
  9. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    I had horrible side effects using Provigil (extreme chest tightening and shortness of breath)..

    Adderal is the king of the stimulants(It is basically store bought meth amphetamine)
    Pros>energy through the roof

    Cons>crash

    Moral>don't think you're Superman just because you Feel like him, then Adderall will derinitely work the best IMO.........
     
  10. fibrodude84

    fibrodude84 Senior Member

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    Adderal is more dangerous side effect wise and may also increase depression and anxiety no? Sigh.
     
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    When docs prescribe it for the correct reasons adderall can be helpful for some. It does increase blood flow to certain parts of the brain. My autonomic specialist prescribed it for me...but at very low dose, a couple of mgs if I remember correctly.

    Sushi
     
  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Those that had horrible side effects from modafinil, what dosages were used?

    I use between 25 and 50mg, i havent gone any higher. The normal doses are 100-200mg, i think if i took that sort of dose then i would get bad side effects.

    I have read things on modafinil hinting about it being neuroprotective and lower cytokines like tnf alpha but nothing really in concrete, but a theory on why is helpful in MS patients and reducing the progression of their disease. Would be interesting to see more research into these other mechanisms.
     
  13. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    Using low dose adderall is actually dangerous and can cause brain damage because of it going in and out of your system effectively putting you on a permanent withdrawal
     
  14. Tired of being sick

    Tired of being sick Senior Member

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    Not true in my case..........
    I was not on low dose though.......

    I have ADD which is very common with ME.....

    I still have three 30mg tabs from my last prescription in December 2010...........
    (could no longer afford it)

    I only take it when I have to be at my strongest wit......
    (when I have to battle with doctors or educate them in which I could never do this effectively without Adderal)

    Adderal/ephedrine/energy drinks were the only way I could work in the last decade of my working days)

    However, I always crashed after lunch to where fellow workers would easily notice
    They actually called me an alien right to my face!!!
    And yes they ALL alienated me,Sadly.........

    I had toooo much pride so I pushed myself way further than my actual abilities......
     
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  15. Tito

    Tito Senior Member

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    In my case, Provigil had the effect of amplifying my senses. Sounds were louder, sight was brighter and sharper, ... And pain was worse too! I am bit suprised it is prescribed for fibro... And no, it did not give me any energy.
     
  16. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

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    I was on Provigil for 8 1/2 years, and it was wonderful. It increased my energy level significantly, without causing crashes. I was on 150 mg a day most of the time. Unfortunately, I eventually became sensitized to it, as I am gradually becoming sensitized to everything, and I had to stop taking it.

    Provigil has three interesting biological effects. First, it's an NMDA agonist, which we usually want to avoid, and which is why Dr. Cheney doesn't like it. However, it's this action on the NMDA receptors that helps the mind feel clear and awake.

    Provigil also has a beneficial effect on the mitochondria - it apparently assists in the production of ATP, which is exactly what our mitochondria need, and means that the extra energy we feel from Provigil is real.

    Finally, Provigil boosts the amount of dopamine in the brain. This can give a mild euphoric effect to some people.

    However, the strength of these three effects and the way they balance out varies by person. For some people, Provigil is fantastic; for others, it does nothing, and for others, it just makes them feel wired and causes insomnia. Based on my results, I think it's worth a try, but start at a low dose (such as 50 mg). I found it most useful to get to a level that I could tolerate without causing insomnia.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
    heapsreal likes this.
  17. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    After a long break from provigil would u consider using it again, a break might help reduce the tolerance you built up to it??
     
  18. zzz

    zzz Senior Member

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    It wasn't really a question of building up tolerance; I just had a very sharp reaction when I increased my does to 175 mg (as I did from time to time previously with no problem), and the reaction persisted no matter how far I cut down the dose, even to a few milligrams. That's why I had to stop it completely. At the same time, I lost the ability to take almost anything that had an energizing effect (such as NT Factor, which was also extremely helpful). Fortunately, I can still take ribose - but only at the dose I was taking when this occurred, which was 10mg. If I take even 10.5 mg of ribose, I have insomnia problems.

    This is all due to my central sensitivity syndrome. Dr. Cheney hypothesizes that this syndrome is due to hypersensitivity of the NMDA receptors, which is also in line with Dr. Jay Goldstein's theories. Even Rich VanK and Martin Pall have a role in their theories for NMDA hypersensitivity, though it's not as central in their theories.

    Dr. Cheney further hypothesizes that by up-regulating the GABA receptors and down-regulating the NMDA receptors, central sensitivity syndrome can be reversed. He recommends Klonopin for up-regulating the GABA receptors, and magnesium for down-regulating the NMDA receptors; for the magnesium he recommends the injectable form, so that you get enough of it. I use the nebulized form, which seems to work as well.

    I see some small signs that my central sensitivity syndrome is reversing, though it will take quite a bit more to make sure that they're real. It definitely isn't increasing anymore. If I can get rid of this problem, then yes, I would certainly consider using Provigil again.
     
    xks201 likes this.
  19. cb2

    cb2 Senior Member

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    I am trying out Provigil, have been toying with very small dose of Nuvigl, like 12.5mg of the Nuv, now with the 50mg of provigil i am not feeling much, i seemed to the first day,but now i take it at 5am and go back to sleep and dont feel anything. I have also been trying to get thyroid meds optimized and take sleep meds, wondering if the sleep meds are overriding the effects of the provigil or maybe i just need to take more? i did definatly get energy boost with the low dose of nuvigil but it seemed to cause a bit of anxiety, i have heard that provigil has less anxity effects. any suggestions? thank you
     
  20. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Provigil gave me ok energy but it made me paranoid and afraid of the world. I didn't last long on it. I've had good experiences with ritalin although its not smooth at all.

    Actually I've had by far the best smooth normal energy from the opioids tramadol and kratom. They are pretty amazing but can't really be taken daily because of tolerance/addiction issues
     

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