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Starting low and slow

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by ldf, May 29, 2014.

  1. ldf

    ldf

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    @caledonia and All,

    I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you could help me understand how to start treatment. Like many others I am having much difficulty wrapping my head around this complex topic.
    I somewhat remember that you indicated in a previous post that you only took a very small amount of Yasko's All in One Multi a couple of times a week along with a small amount of B12 and methylfolate(?). Frustratingly, I have a history of being extremely sensitive to supplements therefore plan on starting low and slow. So I am very curious about the protocol that works for you. My main question is how you determined how much and how often you could take the Multi? Other questions: How long did you take the Multi before starting the B12? Do you take the B12 daily? Do you also take a B complex? If yes, which one and how much. I am confused on how much of the other B vitamins to take. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer questions on this forum...what a blessing you are to others! Any treatment advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated! Here are my results:

    COMT V158M ++
    COMT H62H ++
    VDR Bsm ++
    MAO-A R297R ++
    MTRR A66G ++
    BHMT 02 ++
    BHMT 08 ++


    COMT P199P +-
    MTHFR C677T +-
    MTR A2756G +-
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    My protocol keeps changing as my needs change, so it's hard to say what my protocol is. But what I'm currently taking is:

    NOW potassium gluconate - 4 times a day
    Vinco's magnesium glycinate - 4 times a day
    Douglas Labs methylcobalamin - 4 times a day
    Holistic Health adenosylcobalamin - 4 times a day
    Vinco's probiotics (lacto, bifido) once a day
    Thorne Sacro B (s. boulardii) once a day
    Holistic Health All in One multi – 1/64 of one pill on Monday and Thursday
    Fish oil (Omega Rx) 1/4 tsp once a day
    Thorne Calcium citramate - 1/4 of one pill 4 times a day
    Thorne Pic-mins (trace minerals) - 1/2 of one pill once a day
    Da Vinci Vitamin D 2000 iu - once a day

    Normally the multi would be enough for calcium and the trace minerals, but I'm taking such a tiny amount of the multi I'm getting deficient. So I've added those as additional supplements.

    I use muscle testing to determine amounts and how often to take things, and if that doesn't seem to be working, then I use trial and error. Very occasionally I do some testing to check up on things. It's especially difficult to use muscle testing for electrolytes (potassium, magnesium and calcium) because muscle testing depends on a good electrolyte balance to work, so I go by trial and error for those. My doc has been helpful guiding me through that.

    I was taking a small amount of Yasko's B complex at one point, but it was too much, so for now, I'm relying on the B complex vitamins in the All In One multi.

    I started with taking Yasko's Neurological Health Formula and then that morphed into the All In One. I think I was taking B12 with it the whole time. I would suggest taking both together, maybe making a trial of a few days with one or the other separately to test for tolerance.

    I wouldn't suggest doing a long term supplementation of any multi without also adding sublingual active B12. I actually got into a worse B12 deficiency by doing this, as the oral B12 in the multi wasn't enough. I do have the "B12 double whammy" of both MTR and several MTRR mutations, so I think people with these mutations would be particularly prone to this. It looks like you have the same MTR/MTRR setup....
     
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

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    You have no First Priority mutations - lucky you. So if you don't have any gut problems to take care of you can jump right in with the Second Priority mutations.

    You have MTHFR C677T, which is the major one, so some methylfolate for that. (contained in the Holistic Health All in One multi).

    You have both MTR (B12 intake) and MTRR (B12 recycling) which is the "B12 double whammy", so some B12 for that.

    For your COMT V158M / VDR taq combo, Yasko suggests mostly hydroxycobalamin. You have the most sensitive combo, so take it easy with methyl supplements or you could get mood swings.

    You have several BHMTs, so some sunflower lecithin for that, which converts to TMG (contained in the Holistic Health All in One multi).

    You have MAO A, which affects serotonin. Yasko suggests getting all the other methylation cycle supports in place for awhile, then if you're still having mental health type issues, to supplement with sprinkles of 5htp. This is contraindicated if you're taking an SSRI or SNRI anti-depressant medication which also affects serotonin.

    Be sure to read the documents "Start Low and Go Slow" and "Roadblocks to Successful Methylation" linked in my signature before starting. They will tell you how to divide supplements small, what to have on hand in case you get overmethylated or run into potassium deficiency, how to determine correct amounts and so on.
     
    sueami likes this.
  4. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    @caledonia I, too, have read a lot of your posts (of course, I remember very little lol). I would deeply appreciate any help you can offer regarding my SNP's as well.

    I made an ill-fated attempt at methylation about a year ago, but feel that it failed due to my ignorance, confusion, and just plain ill health. It's time to visit the subject again, this time hopefully doing things correctly. I have recently learned that LCF makes me quite ill for several days. (or so it seems?)

    If you are able/willing, I will be glad to attach my genetic genie results. Thanks so much.
     
  5. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Yes, just tag me so I see it.
     
  6. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    Thanks so much, @caledonia. I really appreciate your time and energy.
    Genetic Genie Methylation.png
     
  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    First Priority mutations

    SHMT - this is one of the "leaky gut SNPs", so if you have gut problems, you would want to address that first, along with SHMT. You would take some folinic acid for that.

    CBS A360A with five BHMTs - generally people with CBS A360A don't need to worry about CBS, but you also have many BHMT SNPs which can add to CBS or even cause a CBS problem without having a CBS SNP. Especially if you have problems tolerating sulfur foods or supps, or problems tolerating methyl supps, it might be a good idea to check ammonia and urine sulfate levels. There is a lot more info about CBS on the Heartfixer page.

    Take care of these two first before proceeding to the Second Priority mutations.

    Second Priority mutations

    MTHFR C677T - this affects folate, so some methylfolate for that.
    MTRR A66G - this is B12 recycling so some B12 for that.

    COMT V158M +/- with VDR taq +/+ - this combination affects what kind of B12 to take. You're sort of in the middle on sensitivity. Yasko suggests all three types (hydroxy, methyl and adenosylcobalamin) with less methylcobalamin.

    BHMT - this is the secondary methylation pathway. Yasko suggests some sunflower lecithin which would convert to TMG for this.

    MAO A +/+ - this affects serotonin. Yasko suggests to get all the other supports in place for awhile then if you're still experiencing mental health type issues take sprinkles of 5htp. This is contraindicated if you're on an SSRI/SNRI antidepressant type medication.

    I have links to the various things I mentioned in my signature. Also read "Start Low and Go Slow" and "Roadblocks to Successful Methylation" before starting.
     
  8. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    @caledonia You, my friend, are a giver. I really appreciate your help. I simply couldn't put it all together and got too confused. I'm going to look into Heartfixer, now that I know where to start :) It's nice to know my list of things to fix isn't so long!

    Lastly, any idea where to get good urine test strips? I've been on methylfolate and alternating types of B12 for about a year, with no results. Is that because I haven't addressed the SHMT thing? Thanks so much. I'm off to Heartfixer with my list :)

    Edit: Found the test strips in your signature.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  9. caledonia

    caledonia

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    There are many reasons why you may not have gotten results. Try reading "Roadblocks to Successful Methylation Treatment" in my signature links.
     
  10. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    @caledonia et al - I read the "Low and Slow" and "Roadblocks" documents. Good stuff, but I am still confused about one thing.

    I taken Seeking Health's multi, which provides 400 mcg L-Methylfolate and 125 mcg Methylcobalamin for over a year. On a daily basis, I have several of the symptoms of overmethylation:

    feeling stressed
    anxious
    intense head pressure

    (I can't necessarily attribute those symptoms to the multi - they might just be my ME???) So...... do I discontinue the multi until I get my CBS/BHMT's under control? Thanks!
     
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Actually those would be the symptoms of a CBS problem, not overmethylation. My suggestion would be to discontinue the multi and see if those symptoms clear up.

    Are you taking any other methyl supps such as other B12, especially sublingual or injection? Any TMG, lecithin, betaine, methionine or SAMe? If so, try stopping those too.

    Right now, it's hard to say if a) the multi is the problem b) if it is the multi, which ingredient in the multi might be the problem c) if you have a CBS problem

    My other suggestion would be to at least do the "poor man's test" for CBS, which is the urine sulfate strips. They should read consistently high over several days, not go up and down.

    So you have some SNPs that could maybe cause CBS, and some symptoms that sound like CBS. If you stop the multi and any other source of methyl groups mentioned, and the symptoms clear up, that would be another clue. A consistently high reading on the urine sulfate strips would be another clue.

    So if all of that were true, then I think you could be pretty confident that you did have a CBS problem. So then you would do CBS treatment and lay off the multi (and other methyl supps) until you had completed the CBS treatment. You can use the urine sulfate strips to gauge how you're doing.

    It's a good idea to be sure about CBS before proceeding, because it can take up to three months and there are several additional supplements and dietary changes, so why put yourself through that unnecessarily.
     
  12. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    @caledonia Absolutely great advice! I think your help has put me on the right path this time. My sulfate strips should be here early next week. I will D/C the multi and the B12's so I can commence testing.

    My only other supp's at this point (I've tried them all lol) are quercitin, CoQ10, Omega 3's, C, D3, Mag Citrate, and Potassium. I'm not sure if those are an issue?

    I'll be surprised if I'm not having CBS issues. I've been noticing my headaches are bang-my-head-on-the-floor severe about 4 hours after eating a high sulfur item. Glad you recommended the strips.

    I'd love to hear how you're doing, too. If I'm not mistaken, you've upped your activity level from a 2 to a 2.5? I hope that's true. Thanks again.
     
  13. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I think the other supps would be ok.

    My energy has been about 2.5 since I got carnitine on board last year. Now I don't need carnitine any more and my energy is still the same, so I take that as a good sign. The latest thing is my autoimmune thyroiditis is gone - I don't need a med any more and my labs are normal. Based on the amount of supps I've been able to reduce for my adrenals, I think those have gone from flatlined to partially healed. I haven't done an official test yet. However, I did do a metal test - all my mercury is out, and I seem to be detoxing lead. That's going to take awhile.
     
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  14. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    @caledonia You seem to have a good grasp on all this. I wonder if we all start off like the hare and end up like the tortoise - slow and steady wins the race?

    I'm amazed that your thyroiditis is gone. Mine is still all over the place. I'lll be waiting to see a "3" pop up on your profile :)
     

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