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starting cycloferron

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by heapsreal, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Igal

    Igal

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    from Russia

    Hi! I am from Russia. You can find additional info about cycloferon in English at the following links http://www.polysan-ru.com, http://www.polysan-ru.com/products/cycl/tab/, http://www.polysan-ru.com/products/cycl/inj/. You may try to contact POLYSAN (manufacturer) directly to find out their distribution on N.American market. As far as I know no one russian pharmacy sell/ship directly any produsts outside Russia. Cycloferon is widely used in Russia and can be found in any pharmacy.
  2. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thanks Igal, is it successful for people over there in russia for infections etc, is it popular.

    thanks
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Yes they are, i think this is how ampligen may work but to alot stronger degree.
  5. Rita

    Rita Senior Member

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    Priviet, Igal
    Do you have CFS? Can you explain, if positive , which are the treatments por CFS in Russia?
  6. Rita

    Rita Senior Member

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    It seems that Amixin remains for most time in the body.Is a lot more expensive, but perhaps only needs to take one ot two a week.
    But will be more sure to contact with a doctor who knows this products and can advise about his use , secondary effects,dose,etc.
    In the page of the russian pharmacy from Energyoverload there are other interferons inducers,like laferobion....
    Is good to know that Cycloferon is widely used in Russia and be found in any pharmacy...
  7. energyoverload

    energyoverload

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    hey igla,

    thank you for your contribution to this thread. it is great to have so many people willing to help. it seems that immunoxel is rather hold to get hold of. if most russian pharmacies only ship nationwide, does anyone have any ideas how we can get our hands on this product? I'm wondering if they would be more interested in shipping if one of us were to purchase a bulk load of say immunoxel and any other hard to get hold of interferon inducers (excluding. cycloferon - relatively easy to obtain as you peeps have found a good source). Then we could distribute to any others on this board who want to give these interferon inducers a go.

    igla, is there any way you would be able to contact a russian pharmacy and ask them if they would be willing to do this. i suspect it might be worth their while if we have enough people interested to purchase a bulk load. if you could that would be great, because I'm not sure google is translating my words into very fluent russian...i want to make sure i am making sense. it's frustrating that there are many groundbreaking medicinals developed in the ukraine, completely unknown to many out of russia, because western medicine turns a blind eye, most probably largely in the name of profits (or lack of therefore). These medicinals could potentially benefit many millions worldwide.
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yes, I found some figures for Amixin's half life: 48 hours, which is quite long. A half life 48 hour means that 2 days after taking it, you will still have 50% of this drug left in your blood (and then after another 2 days you loose half of that again; so you will have just 25% left in the blood 4 days from taking it; and then 12.5% left after 6 days from taking it).

    So you are right, you could take just one or two Amixin (tilorone) tablets a week.

    By contrast, the half life of cycloferon is: 4 to 5 hours. This means that 24 hours after taking it, almost no cycloferon will be left in the blood. So you need to take cycloferon every day. (Of course, it is generally advisable to take regular breaks now and then from immunomodulator drugs).

    So you might say that 2 tablets of Amixin are equal to 7 tablets of cycloferon: a ratio of 7/2 = 3.5

    If you look at the price of Amixin ($45 for 10 x 60 mg tablets), and the price of cycloferon ($12 for 10 x 150 mg tablets), you see that 45/12 = 3.75, that is, about the same ratio. (Note that Amixin also comes in 125 mg tablets, though).

    So in reality, Amixin (tilorone) is not much more expensive than cycloferon, once you consider this dosing. The question is, which one is better?

    Note that Amixin (tilorone) is a fairly non-toxic, but does have some teratogenic (birth defect) toxicities. Whereas cycloferon has low toxicity, with no teratogenic, mutagenic or carcinogenic effects.

    Both Amixin (tilorone) and cycloferon can penetrate the blood-brain barrier, so they can operate in the central nervous system, which is good.
  9. Igal

    Igal

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    I would like to answer some questions. 1. (To Rita). Yes, I suffer CFS for at least 4 years. There were some symptoms before that but after acute tonsilitis in 2006 I became severely ill: fatigue, PEM, cognitive problems, poor sleep, etc. I would say that there is no one doctor in Russia (CIS) who recognize CFS and know how to treat it. I searched a lot for a such doctor in Russia four years ago and did not find. Eventually, I found Prof.De Meirleir in Belgium and visited his office for 3 times since that time. I did all tests and blood work at his lab and then got his usual treatment (Nexavir, enteric coated antibiotics, B-12, probiotics, etc) with no significant positive results. I am going to visit him on the end of February for XMRV testing. 2. Up to cycloferon and other russian/ukrainian immunomodulators. There are a lot of russian immunomodulators on the domestic market. All of them are usualy used in combined protocols with antibiotics and/or anti(retro)virals to treat different infections or secondary immunodeficiancy of any origin. Cycloferon, amixin(tilorone) are well known and long used drugs. There are many new immunomodulators like immunoxel which is actually FOOD SUPPLIMENT, not properly registrated DRUG which passed all trials. I would recommend you to be very careful in using such products. Anyway, I do not think you'll find a magic cure for CFS among russian drugs. I personally think that the best way is to trust in WPI and donate them. I have started doing it recently:). Take care!
  10. Rita

    Rita Senior Member

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    It is a pity that our friend Igal can not give better news for Russian products in which we trusted.
    Maybe they are for a combined treatment with antiretroviral drugs.
    I still think that if they have improved somewhat for those who here have explained, can be a good option when we have no other more proven, until the WPI dares to expose his clinical research. Dr Mikovits said that this year we would have treatments and this year has already begun.

    The objectives of the Russian medicine and researchers, I think they are not the same as Westerners. I think they want to heal people over the economic benefit from sales of other laboratories or the interests of governments that dont want to recognize the disease.

    I read a while ago a Russian patent for treatment of CFS. I do not think they do not have the problem of unexplained chronic fatigue.Perhaps they have only a very few people with CFS.In Ukraine they have a big number of HIV patients, they have for sure treatments for it.

    De Meirleir has the promising GCMAF, but many people can not access to it because of financial difficulties, probably the most serious, those in need of it. We do not know yet if it works in all cases. Antiretroviral drugs themselves are very expensive and are available to few people.

    It is logical that we look for serious and cheap alternatives.

    And beg you all that WPI get treatments soon.
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    When it comes to cycloferon and if it will help someone, it comes down to trial and error or getting natural killer function testing done to see if its abnormal, if its abnormal then cyclo may help but if its ok then i cant see cyclo helping, i suppose it comes down to a proper diagnoses of cfs, infections with poor nk function. Because cyclo is quite cheap and appears harmless its worth a trial even if cant getting proper testing but then its hard to measure improvement other then how u feel, which i suppose is what we are after.

    cheers!!!
  12. rwac

    rwac Senior Member

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    Yes, either EGCG is helping with the headache, or it disappeared at the same time I started EGCG.
    I needed 200mg Ibuprofen the previous day to help with the headache.
    I am taking teavigo egcg which contains 135mg, and caffeine-free.
  13. FunkOdyssey

    FunkOdyssey Senior Member

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    A copy of my post from M&M:

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=42918&pid=635715&st=360&#entry635715

  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Shame that cycloferon is drawing out so many side effects in you, FunkOdyssey. As you said yourself earlier, interferon injection treatment often produces side effects such as fever, headache, depression, fatigue, arthralgias, and myalgias (see interferon side effects); so it might be expected that interferon boosters like cycloferon produce something similar in certain people.

    I personally find any treatment that increases my depression levels very hard to bear, and tend to drop it quickly!. I don't mind extra brain fog or extra fatigue, that does not worry me so much; but when depression levels get worse, that's my Achilles' heel. So I can completely empathize!

    I have already tried Amixin and arbidol, and I was fine with these; I am still waiting for my cycloferon to arrive, so I am not sure whether I will experience nasty side effects from cycloferon.


    Ideas for mitigating the side effects of cycloferon/interferon treatment:

    • Perhaps cycloferon is actually working too well for you, in that each cycloferon tablet is producing a very large output of interferon in your body - more than the average person. Assuming this is the case, then taking a half or quarter tablet may be the answer. Plus it is more economical.

    • I read that taking paracetamol (acetaminophen) or ibuprofen can greatly reduce interferon side effects:
    "Panadol is in fact a wonder drug with regard to mitigating Interferon side effects. Just two or three a day really does make an amazing difference" - this anecdote from last paragraph of this page.

    See also: Tolerating interferon: a new study shows that the use of ibuprofen and other anti-inflammatories can help decrease adverse effects.

    • The depression from cycloferon/interferon might be mitigated by taking serotonin boosters. I cannot tolerate SSRI anti-depressants myself (they dramatically increase my depression levels!), but oddly enough, high-dose (10 grams daily) inositol powder (a B vitamin) works well for me, as a natural serotonin booster and potent anti-depressant.

    • Also, although this sounds unbelievable, saffron herb has been shown to be as potent as Prozac as an anti-depressant; saffron strongly boosts serotonin; ref: (1). I have tried saffron for depression, and unlikely as it sounds, saffron most definitely works (only with proper Spanish or Iranian saffron; other stuff like Egyptian saffron is far too weak).

    Saffron dose is around 10 to 20 strands (saffron stamen) every 12 hours. You can take saffron as and when you need it: its anti-depressant effect kicks in fast: within a hour or so of taking it. So this herb is very good as a stand-by solution for depression when you need it.

    • Since the half-life of cycloferon is fairly short (4-5 hours), perhaps take cycloferon just before going to bed? That way, most of the cycloferon will be out of your body by the time you wake up, and so perhaps the worst symptoms you will be unaware of while you sleep.

    • As mentioned before: Green tea EGCG attenuates the neurotoxicity of IFN-gamma augmented neuronal damage from HIV-1. Ref: (1).
  15. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    I have tried Saffron, I love it !! It seems to work immediately from the very first dose !
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    When / where did you hear about saffron, undcvr? I only came across it myself a while back, and I am amazed that saffron is not more generally recognized and utilized as a fast acting, effective, cheap, widely available (in any supermarket), and side-effect free anti-depressant.

    Compared to other more well known herbs/supplements used for their anti-depressant effects (such as NADH, St John's wort, 5-HTP, SAM-e, Bacopa monniera, ravensara oil, etc), I have found Spanish saffron to be a reliable and effective performer.

    St John's wort I don't like; it works for a few days, and then after that actually goes into reverse, and makes you feel more depressed. At least that has been my repeated experience.

    I like Bacopa monniera; this is not only a nice anti-depressant, but also seems to boost your emotions too. Emotional flatness (anhedonia) is a common symptom of CFS.

    NADH is another one I like, though it can be too stimulatory for some people.
  17. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    I run into packets of it at my local grocery store. About 6 months ago I intuitively just picked it up and started using it. I added it to the soups/broths that I make and one day I just got tired of that and started taking it by the packet full. I dont take it everyday. maybe 2-3 times a week. The cost of it adds up quickly though. When it comes to herbs and spices, mankind has had a history of valuing herbs that have antidepressant effects anyway, eg: rose, neroli, tuberose, narcisscus, jasmine, etc. So my thinking was that if Saffron is the most expensive of them all, there has to be something to it. And when it works, its quite amazing, an almost immediate effect.

    Life extensions is selling Optimised Saffron with Satiereal. Its the cheaper part of the stigma as it does not taste so great. I dont think Saffron ever tasted great in the first place. So far it is the closest you can get to a reasonably cheap source of Saffron taking it on a daily dose.
    I have never tried Bacopa and I am ambivalent to St John's Wort. But I do know that SJW has antiviral properties and has been recommended for viruses as well. Its just that you have to expose yourself to sunlight for herb to work in you. Having said that, I just started taking some SJW again.

    NADH by Birkmayer is too expensive for me. For CFS pple who are already prone to overstimulation, I am not sure it is a good idea. In the reduced form and very much cheaper, I have found NAD to be somewhat effective too. I do not take it often. If I do i take it together with the other 8 B vites to spread out its effect.

    When I took Valcyte, I am still on it, I was surprised how many of my neurological symptoms went away. I cut the dosage of my Elavil and Cymbalta in half.

    Have you ever tried SAMe for depression ? I have not but have heard alot of good things about it.
  18. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Heaps I cant get tested for NK cell function here in the US ? What is the name of your test ? I cant get tested for CD57 cell count either. That is supposedly the cells where the virus hides.
  19. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Btw Hip have you tried Lithium Orotate ? I take it every nite and I like it very much. It cuts the stress I am experiencing when I take it in the day. Not carbonate or citrate, specifically the orotate form. It is available quite cheaply as a supplement. I also take Magnesium Orotate. I like that too.
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have tried lithium orotate; I did not notice any immediate calming effects in my case (but I wasn't looking out for that effect, so sometimes you can miss an effect unless you are specifically looking for it). It is neuroprotective, I think that was the reason I got hold of it. But there is no easy way to figure out whether a neuroprotective supplement is working for you.

    I will have to take it again, and specifically watch out for a calming effect. I definitely find transdermal magnesium cream is calming and soothing.

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