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starting cycloferron

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by heapsreal, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. energyoverload

    energyoverload Senior Member

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    how are you peeps still doing on cycloferon?

    hey peeps,

    basically the title says it all, but also are you still improving or has the improvement slowed down/not continued to be cumulative?

    thanks,

    jake :D
     
  2. FunkOdyssey

    FunkOdyssey Senior Member

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    Well I've only been on it five days so it's early to say. I think it's making me a bit more fatigued, brain foggy, irritable, and having a negative effect on my mood. Basically what you would expect from stimulating interferon production.
     
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Cycloferon, Astragalus, Immunovir

    For anyone trying immunomodulators for chronic fatigue syndrome such as cycloferon or astragalus (which boost interferon-alpha), or Immunovir (which boosts interferon-gamma), note that Dr Cheney says that you should follow a pulsed, on/off protocols when taking immunomodulators, to stop the body from getting used to the drugs or herbs, and compensating for them.

    Here is Dr Cheney’s protocol for taking Immunovir:

    Week one, take 6 tablets a day, Monday through Friday, and none on the weekend. Week two, take 2 tablets a day, Monday through Friday, and none on the weekend. Repeat this cycle. But do not treat every month. Do two months on and then one month off of this “pulsing” dose. This medicine works best when you do not treat regularly. If you treat continuously at the same dose, it stops working. It is an immune modulator, and Dr. Cheney suspects all immuno-modulators are like this. If taken continuously they stop working. The dose must vary so the immune system never knows what to expect.

    Whether this Cheney protocol is equally suitable for cycloferon also, I am not sure; but bear in mind that some CFS doctors do feel that the body stops responding to immunomodulators if they are used continuously.


    Immunovir Alternative?

    Note that one person has theorized that the supplement combination inosine + DMAE may be equivalent to taking the drug Immunovir, but works out much cheaper (and of course as inosine and DMAE are supplements, they are available without prescription). See here for more info on using inosine + DMAE in place of Immunovir:

    http://cfsendeavor.blogspot.com/2009/11/testing-inosinedmae-formula.html
    http://cfsendeavor.blogspot.com/2009/11/immunovir-versus-inosine-revisited-part.html
    http://cfsendeavor.blogspot.com/2009/11/immunovir-versus-inosine-revisited-part_14.html

    Note also that Dr Nancy Klimas, who often prescribes Immunovir for her CFS patients, says that it can take up to a year before the benefits of Immunovir (or inosine + DMAE) start to accumulate.


    Maximizing the Effect

    In terms of maximising the antiviral potency of the immunomodulators that boost interferon-alpha (namely cycloferon and astragalus), you may want to consider taking a zinc supplement at the same time, because:

    Zinc Potentiates the Antiviral Action of Human Interferon-Alpha Tenfold

    That is to say, the above study would suggest that taking zinc supplements at the same time as cycloferon or astragalus should increase the interferon-alpha potency by a factor of 10.

    Furthermore, NF-kB inhibitors (like curcumin and grape seed extract) can also boost the antiviral and immunomodulatory effects of interferon.

    Finally, note that interferon-alpha has more powerful antiviral action than interferon-gamma, but interferon-alpha + interferon-gamma work even better in combination. So taking an interferon-alpha booster like cycloferon or astragalus, with an interferon-gamma booster like Immunovir (or inosine + DMAE) might be an excellent strategy.

    So, adding all the above info together, one might theorize that potent antiviral and immunomodulatory protocol for CFS that I think should have considerable efficacy might be:

    Cycloferon and/or astragalus
    Immunovir (or inosine+DMAE)
    Zinc
    Curcumin or grape seed extract

    Of course, consult with a doctor before trying this.

    Note that interferon can lower brain serotonin levels, and which may make you a little more depressed. If this happens, try serotonin boosters, like high dose inositol powder, around 10 grams daily (inositol is a B-vitamin, not to be confused with the inosine supplement mentioned above).

    By the way, pharmacy1010 (who sell cycloferon) have recently moved to a new URL, at: www.pharmacy1010.ru
     
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Heapsreal, it is great that you have updated everyone on your progress with cycloferon. I shall be starting cycloferon too very soon, and will also report here.

    Just to clarify, is the dosing you are following at the moment 300 mg of cycloferon, taken once every two days?

    I guess this one day on, one day off dosing protocol for cycloferon is a form of "pulsing", as Dr Cheney recommends for all immunomodulators.
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    hi funkodyssey, cyclo shouldnt make u feel worse, but i dont really know as i dont know many who have used cyclo but cyclo only suppose to effect alpha and beta interferon which have anti-inflammatory actions, where gamma interferon isnt effected by cyclo and gamma interferon is pro-inflammatory. This info is just from my reading, also could feel worse due to some type of die off reaction, but keep us posted on your experience, we are all learning from each other.

    cheers!!!

     
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Im glad u appreciate the updates hip. I do this to encourage others to try it so then we can learn from each other how it can help us. I dose taking 2 x150mg tablets every mon/wed/fri, i decided on this schedule as have read this is what they use for immune defiencies, but alot of the dosing schedules arent to different other then the length of treatment which is usually a 20-40 tablet course but longer for immune defiencies. I have been using cyclo since the start of this thread and believe its still helping but will take a break as is recommended for other immune modulators. Im yet to have another lymphocyte test but will get it in the next few weeks, so will be able to see how its effecting my immune system, maybe take a few weeks break after this, then start using it coming into the aussie winter/flu season mid year. Adding the zinc sounds interesting, might be why its in alot of cold and flu formulas. Keep us posted.

    cheers!!!

     
  7. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    I've actually already been taking what Hips suggested I hae a background in TCM (traditional chinese medicine). I have been taking astragulus and licorice root which can induce interferons in the body as well. From what I understand the Pegasys alpha-interferon therapy will make you feel worse becos you are injected interferons into the body from an external source. Making your body produce more indigenous interferon is not the samething.
    Note that Astragalus has two parts to it the Astragalosides and the polysaccharides that both do different things. This is just in case you are buying it in the standardised form.
    I take the Zn at nite before bed in the Zn orotate form. I work it out to almost 50mg of elemental Zn and not the weight when it is combined to the orotate. Taking Zn at nite b4 bed is supposed to boost your growth hormone lvls as well. That is the theory behing ZMA (Zn-Mg Aspartate) and it works some. Just remember that cfsers need more of the stuff.

    One other thing that I have been taking at hi amts is DIM (300-600mg) its supposed to be a gamma inf inducers. I have been doing it for almost a month now but I have nothing to report. I did feel better when as i was taking it I added the ciclopheron to it as well
     
  8. FunkOdyssey

    FunkOdyssey Senior Member

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    Regarding cycloferon dosing and schedule, I am XMRV positive, and of the listed protocols provided by the manufacturer, HIV seems the most similar to my situation, so I'm just following that to the letter. I'm not confident that we know enough to deviate from that, in the absence of CFS specific data.
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    If you look at Cort's write up of Dr Chia's experience with interferon alpha, gamma and delta in CFS, you see that Chia got the best results with the interferon alpha/delta combination. But interestingly, the interferon alpha/gamma combo put a couple of CFS patients into almost full remission for the longest: 14 months.

    During Dr Chia's intravenous interferon injection treatment, his CFS patients often experienced significantly increased malaise and depression. Most were put into remission from CFS, but relapse after some time is the norm.

    The immunomodulator drugs will not create the same high level of interferon as via intravenous interferon injection (so the increased malaise symptoms will be slight, if any), but the lower levels of interferon from these immunomodulator drugs might conceivably work reasonably well, if these drugs are taken continuously, over many, many months.

    Given that Dr Chia used interferon alpha/gamma and alpha/delta combinations for treatment, it might be a good idea to try to create the same interferon combinations with our immunomodulator drugs (for example, cycloferon + Immunovir should create the interferon alpha/gamma combo treatment).

    Adding a few interferon-boosting herbs may also help, but as undcvr mentions above, you have to get the right standardized extracts, otherwise the herbs will be too weak to do anything.


    Here are some snippets of information I have been collecting on interferons:

    • Interferon-gamma is primarily an immune regulator that is believed to have relatively weak antiviral properties. It is used to potentiate the effects of the stronger anti-virals, interferon alpha and beta.

    Bupleurum kaoi herb increases interferon alpha and beta.

    • Astragalus increases interferon alpha and gamma.

    • Reishi increases interferon alpha.

    • Zinc potentiates the antiviral action of human interferon alpha tenfold.

    • The following immunomodulatory herbs only stimulate interferon gamma: echinacea, cat's claw, Korean ginseng, American ginseng, Siberian ginseng, schizandra, propolis, cordyceps, goji berries, licorice, neem, milk thistle.

    • Beta-Glucan alone or plus L-theanine increased interleukin IL-10 levels and decreased interferon gamma and tumor necrosis factor.

    • Green tea EGCG attenuates the neurotoxicity of interferon gamma augmented neuronal damage from HIV-1.

    • Rhodiola rosea reduces side effects of interferon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I have found the astragalus good and use it through the winter to avoid flu season but last 2 years started it after i got sick, need to start earlier with it, if i remember. I will definately look into the zinc especially if it increases our own interferon or potentiates it. Also ampligen works through interferons etc and have heard that they are producing an oral interferon product, not sure if its suppose to be an oral version of ampligen or not. Does anyone know if immuno/gamaglobulins also work at increasing interferons.

    cheers!!!
     
  11. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Just found this article in English that describes all the Russian immunomodulators:

    Synthetic and Natural lmmunomodulators Acting as Interferon Inducers (you need to join the forum there first to access; it's free ).

    Here is the excerpt on Cycloferon:

    Cycloferon is a synthetic analogue of Cytrus Grandis alkaloid, stimulates B-cells, macrophages and other cells and tissues to produce almost pure type 1 interferons. It was reported to have up to 100-fold upregulation of beta-interferon gene and 10-fold upregulation of alpha-interferon gene in the human blood samples after administration of Cycloferon without affecting essentially the activity of other genes of blood cells.
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I don't think immunoglobulins (antibodies) will cause any stimulation of interferon.

    Immunoglobulins are useful for treating CFS caused by parvovirus B19.

    There are lots of immunoglobulins in bovine colostrum powder, and colostrum does seem to help people with CFS.
     
  13. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Hip u knw i was looking into that as well as a product called Immunolin which is said to be over 40% IgG. It is sold by Proliant. I bot a whole bucket (really) from them recently and am trying it out. Its way cheaper than colostrum or anything tabletted or pilled for that matter. But my question is: do Ig cross species ? I mean from all the studies I've read they say it does but I dont understand how ??? They are proteins so they get cut up by stomach acids, its a hassle to have to keep taking it on an empty stomach and to keep taking a neutraliser like a mineral or Tums with it.

    I keep thinking if it was the Ig that i was taking that temp screwed with my Ig blood readings.
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I tried Immunolin too, and got similar results to colostrum. But colostrum has other things in it like IGF-1 growth factor, that studies have shown benefits CFS.

    You need to take colostrum / Immunolin on an empty stomach to minimize damage by stomach acids to the IgG immunoglobulins. I often take it on an empty stomach, plus I take a 1/4 teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda just before as well, to remove all traces of acidity in the stomach.

    Bizarrely though, stomach acids seem to help in the absorption of the IGF-1 growth factors in colostrum. See this article:


    Research Shows Acids Enhance Growth Factors Found In Colostrum – Important Implication For How Colostrum Is Taken.

    A recent study involving in-vitro testing of colostrum assayed amounts of the various growth factors commonly found in the substance. At one point in the experiment, acid was introduced to simulate the effects of stomach acid on colostrum. The results were startling.

    Before acidification, the colostrum showed the presence of growth factors in amounts ranging from 2-5 ng (nanograms) per mg (milligram). After the acid was introduced, the amount of growth factor(s) increased dramatically to 50-200 ng per mg. That’s a 2,500 to 4,000 percent increase!

    The implications are clear. Stomach acid dramatically increases the amount of growth factors available to the human body from a source of quality bovine colostrum. For this reason, if you want to concentrate on the effects created by these growth factors (including metabolizing or burning fat, building muscle and accelerating healing) you should take colostrum in powder form so that it has maximum opportunity to interact with natural concentrations of stomach acid.

    On the other hand, the effectiveness of the immune factors present in colostrum is lowered by stomach acid. Colostrum does contain glycoproteins and protease inhibitors that protect it somewhat from acidity, but these substance can only minimize the negative effects of the acid on colostrum’s immune factors. And these immune components are most effective when they are enabled to reach the intestinal tract.

    Therefore, the best way to ensure that colostrum’s immune factors remain intact and make it through the stomach to the intestinal tract is to take colostrum in capsule form with a large glass of water. The water helps slightly and temporarily reduce stomach acidity and helps "wash" the capsules through to the small intestine.

    So, if you want to get the benefits of the two different major groups of components in colostrum, ideally you should take it in two different forms—in powder to take advantage of its growth factors, and in capsule form to get the maximum benefit from its immune factors.
     
  15. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    That's odd cos in the other places that I have read, Cicloferon is supposed to generate 'almost pure interferon alpha'.

    I take another product from Proliant for the IGF factors

    Yea that is bizarre but it also explains why the the product with growth factors say 'take with food'.
     
  16. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Do oral immunoglobulins survive the the gut, i thought i may have read where alot of them are broken down in the gut into basic proteins etc and have no immunological effect, i could be wrong though.
     
  17. energyoverload

    energyoverload Senior Member

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    hey,

    i'm not sure about the gut issue, whether the acidity of the stomach would denature any of the ingredients... however what i do know is that almost always most drugs or even herbs are more potent when injected, even i.m. administration as you are able to bypass the protective barrier of the skin and penetrate internal tissues directly.

    just my two cents ;)
     
  18. Rita

    Rita Senior Member

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    Undcvr What do you think of this page?
    http://hnmrc.net/pd1738843748.html

    and also, in Myprotein, UK, they sell goat colostrum,perhaps is best for usand good price. I want to try, but there are so many products I want to try ...
    Of course, I have no financial interest in this items..
     
  19. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    Hey Rita, I have not heard anything about goat colostrum. If it is a better source is it because it is higher in IGs or some other growth factor ? I know that some pple say that goat milk causes less senstive or allergic reactions than cow's milk do but this is anecedotal and I dont know enough pple that have tried goat's milk. I like it though when I buy it from my local gorcery store but it has a strong taste and smell.

    The link to the TCM formula works out to slightly over $2 a day. That seems pretty expensive for a formula that is not even standardised. The one that I took is by Hepzone or Honso and it is called SST (so-saiko-to), Japanese for Minor Buplureum formula. Its not even recommended for CFS but instead sold as a liver protective tonic. It is Japanese made and standardised. I like it, it worked for me. I assume you are in the UK ?
    You can buy Astragulus and Licorice root separately and just take them together. I know that works too. I added Astragulus to my SST formula too when I was taking it.
    But if you are broke like alot of us with CFS are because we cannot work just get the Licorice root and Astragulus in a standardised form. It is much cheaper and you will still get the benefits.

    I know that in the website you showed me : the active ingredients in it are the Astragulus, Cinnamon and Ginseng.

    Actually I find TCM uniquely suited to treat CFS because it treats many things at the same time. Unlike the western approach which is monotherapy for one cause, TCM tries to cover as many symptoms as it can with one formula and herbs always have more than one effect on the body while researchers try to document the one that they are studying.
     
  20. Rita

    Rita Senior Member

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    Well, your link is not free access, but I have this in Pub Med:
    Synthetic and natural immunomodulators acting as interferon inducers.

    Silin DS, Lyubomska OV, Ershov FI, Frolov VM, Kutsyna GA.

    Laboratory of Molecular Virology, Medical and Biology Center, School of Biomedical Sciences, Queen's University Belfast, 97 Lisburn Road, Belfast, BT9 7BL, UK. d.silin@queens-belfast.ac.uk
    Abstract

    Interferons are first immunomodulatory molecules that have been shown to display a wide range of applications due to their antiviral, antibacterial, antitumor, and inflammatory activities. Natural and recombinant interferons are among most common biologic therapeutics worldwide. Interferon inducers, however, are less known and have been mostly developed and used in former socialist countries. Despite the fact that they are virtually unknown to the Western world, they represent a substantial market share of modern pharmacopoeia in former socialist republics. This review provides a brief description of most popular interferon inducers including Amyxin, Amizon, Anandin, Arbidol, Blasten, Cycloferon, Galavit, Groprinosine, Hepon, Immunoxel, Dzherelo, Kagocel, Larifan, Ligfol, Likopid, Mebavin, MIGI-KLP, V-5 Immunitor, SCV-07, Milife, Neovir, Poludan, Ragocin, Ridostin, Thymogen and Savratz, some of which were in use for several decades for the same clinical indications as for interferons. The variety and choice offered by the pharmaceutical industry behind the former "iron curtain" certainly deserves the appreciation, familiarity and application prospects for medical and research investigators worldwide.

    Some weeks ago I sent two or three mails to the ukrainian lab who made Immunoxel, they dont answered me.I asked also in pharmacy1010,they dont sell it.
    But im sure there are doctors in Russia or Ukraine that know all this products and perhaps they are able to treat CFS patients with them.They have a different way to treat patients, differents products, differents labs.I dont know if they have CFS in their countries, or if they cure or treat best that in western countries, but perhaps they are a possibility for us.Today with internet all is most easy.Dont know the way to contact with any russian or ukrainian doctor reliable...
     

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