Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[hvac14400]

some time ago i took 2 tabs of this at midnight:

http://www.smed.ru/userfiles/products/original/67093.jpg
http://www.kaefproduk.com/pic/DEXAMETHASONE-485.jpg

8 hours later (next morning) my serum cortisol level was practically zero - lower than lower limit. tho no any changes in energy level.
so you can test any theory in this simple way, may have to up/correct the dose tho.

 

[Biarritz13]

In the request for information/proposal, I saw that Gottfries was listed and talked about methylation in his email, unfortunately I didn't see any mention of the staph vaccine.

Maybe I didn't get through well enough but I find this weird.

 

[melihtas]

One interesting thing that alpha toxin does do is impair the myelin sheath on the vagus nerve (at least in rabbits), and presumably on other myelinated peripheral nerves as well. Ref: 1

I am not sure if the toxoid version can also do this, but if there were some temporary impairment of vagus nerve signal transmission after injecting the alpha toxoid vaccine due to myelin sheath disruption, it's highly speculative, but this might perhaps explain the temporary mood boost, if we assume the sickness behavior model of ME/CFS (whereby signals transmitted along the vagus nerve cause sickness behavior symptoms such as depression, fatigue, brain fog, etc).

This is an interesting point. There is a study that suggests we have too much myelination.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...have-a-neurological-origin.42835/#post-693284

 

[Ninan]

In the request for information/proposal, I saw that Gottfries was listed and talked about methylation in his email, unfortunately I didn't see any mention of the staph vaccine.

Maybe I didn't get through well enough but I find this weird.

What do you find weird?

@hvac14400 Are there home test kits? Won't risk my adrenals by taking hydrocortisone. Some ppl crash from it and I don't even tolerate crumbles of the mildest glandular. Anyway I'll know sooner or later. The effect of something triggering cortisol is usually obvious over time, like with candida. Same as when I took steroids.

 

[Ninan]

Given that nobody yet has had any major improvements from the Medgamal alpha toxoid vaccine, my thoughts are that alpha toxoid may not be the ingredient in Staphypan that works for ME/CFS; which then points to the enterotoxin A toxoid or the enterotoxin B toxoid in Staphypan as being the next most likely candidates for the compounds that treat ME/CFS.

How difficult/expensive could it be to produce these toxoids? To get some lab to produce samples for testing?

 

[hvac14400]

In the request for information/proposal, I saw that Gottfries was listed and talked about methylation in his email

you can test it very easily too - look at this post - http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...inic-acid-intolerance-help.45071/#post-733560
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...inic-acid-intolerance-help.45071/#post-733560

@hvac14400 Are there home test kits?
...
The effect of something triggering cortisol is usually obvious over time, like with candida. Same as when I took steroids.

test kits for cortisol level? idk, maybe in modern countries, but not in my own one : ) they even can't test it in saliva here.
steroids should compete with cortisol for its receptor, so while cortisol may have been increased when taking steroids, its effect infact should be decreased. but when you stop steroids, then there may be rebound effect, when suddenly there is too much cortisol floating in your blood and nothing to compensate for it - i experienced this myself a couple times : )

 

[Hip]

How difficult/expensive could it be to produce these toxoids? To get some lab to produce samples for testing?

Until recently, both enterotoxin B, and the enterotoxin B toxoid (a toxoid is a weakened form of the toxin), were freely available to buy. But the sale of these has recently been restricted, due to fears they could be used in a bioterrorism attack.

The toxin is available here, and the toxoid version here.

However, because even tiny doses of enterotoxin B can be lethal (and even the weakened toxoid form can sometimes be lethal), you would need to have expertise in these toxins if you wanted to develop an injectable formulation based on them. I would not want to do this myself, because you could easily kill yourself, or cause damage.

But I should think that a competent lab with expertise in the use of such toxoids might be able to produce an injectable formulation, but they would probably only do so under the understanding it was not for human use.



The new University of Iowa Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine, which contains all the toxoids found in the original Staphypan, and would be the ideal replacement for Staphypan, has been help up by the CDC due to the same bioterrorism concerns regarding its enterotoxin content. Had it not been for this bioterrorism concern, this Iowa vaccine would have been available to buy right now.

In fact, the toxoid version of enterotoxin found in this Iowa vaccine is relatively harmless; it is only the enterotoxin that can be used as a bioterrorism agent. But the CDC don't seem to understand that.

 

[Ninan]

Had it not been for this bioterrorism concern, this Iowa vaccine would have been available to buy right now.

Is it available for doctors? Researchers?

 

[Hip]

Is it available for doctors? Researchers?

@CaptainA was in email contact with the inventor of this Iowa vaccine, Prof Patrick Schlievert at the University of Iowa, but he is not very responsive, and does not usually answer emails. He did not answer mine, and it took @CaptainA a lot of effort (phone calls, etc) to get a reply from Schlievert (and all he said was the vaccine was blocked due to bioterrorism concerns).

I am not aware of any scheme that makes this Iowa vaccine available to researchers or doctors. I did some time ago email Prof Gottfries to inform him of the existence of this Iowa vaccine.



At the moment, the only option for obtaining an enterotoxin-based vaccine is the Russian dog vaccine mentioned earlier. @hvac14400 said that this vaccine is currently unavailable in Russia due to an expired certificate which will hopefully be renewed shortly. I tried to get more info from @hvac14400 about when it might become available, but he does not appear to be talking to me. Perhaps someone else can ask him.

 

[Biarritz13]

What do you find weird?

you can test it very easily too - look at this post - http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...inic-acid-intolerance-help.45071/#post-733560

@Ninan I find weird the fact that he mentions methylation but not his study on the staph vaccine which is something that could potentially interest NIH.

@hvac14400 Thank you but I think you misunderstand me or I didn't express myself in a good english lol.

 

[hvac14400]

@Theodore
that post was not personally for you, but for anybody who reads your reply, so your english is ok : ) and am too just like you think that it's a lil weird, about prof G and a vaccine.

 

[hvac14400]

after stopping vaccine my immunity dropped down a little and with increasing workload i got more pems
probably not from demand itself, but from inability to get rid of (chronic) infections fast enough.
don't want to interrupt my training, so today's morning i decided "F it!":

so now am with you guys, again

 

[Ninan]

@CaptainA was in email contact with the inventor of this Iowa vaccine, Prof Patrick Schlievert at the University of Iowa, but he is not very responsive, and does not usually answer emails. He did not answer mine, and it took @CaptainA a lot of effort (phone calls, etc) to get a reply from Schlievert (and all he said was the vaccine was blocked due to bioterrorism concerns).

I am not aware of any scheme that makes this Iowa vaccine available to researchers or doctors. I did some time ago email Prof Gottfries to inform him of the existence of this Iowa vaccine.



At the moment, the only option for obtaining an enterotoxin-based vaccine is the Russian dog vaccine mentioned earlier. @hvac14400 said that this vaccine is currently unavailable in Russia due to an expired certificate which will hopefully be renewed shortly. I tried to get more info from @hvac14400 about when it might become available, but he does not appear to be talking to me. Perhaps someone else can ask him.

Bioterrorism... Like we had the energy.
Does blocked mean they cannot make it at all? Not even to sell to researchers etc?

 

[Hip]

Does blocked mean they cannot make it at all? Not even to sell to researchers etc?

I should think it will be available to researchers at research institutions, just not to the general public.

Though I am not sure if the University of Iowa has any of their vaccine available to supply. I believe Iowa just researched and developed a manufacturing process for this new vaccine, a process which they are hoping to license to a manufacturer who will then make the vaccine. But with enterotoxin blocked for sale to the public, there is no point in any manufacturer trying to make the vaccine.

 

[CaptainA]

Is it available for doctors? Researchers?

As @Hip mentioned Prof Patrick Schlievert is pretty unresponsive but I could ask him. I feel like responses are gold from him so it would need to be important. If he could give this to researchers who would that be? If it might help his vaccine get approved he may go for it.

 

[CaptainA]

Bioterrorism... Like we had the energy.
Does blocked mean they cannot make it at all? Not even to sell to researchers etc?

I was told that the CDC was blocking it even before the FDA could approve it. I'm taking that as a real big no. Prof Patrick Schlievert said that the notion that anyone could use this in terrorism was ridiculous and I offered to help draft a letter or start a petition but couldn't get a response.

 

[hvac14400]

wow, daemn - 3 ampoules gave me much more pronounced anxiolytic effect than 2 % )
in fact, this is prob the first time am really feeling something of that sort of action at all. btw - 3 amps i not that much as you may think of, coz standard full dose is 2 amps of adsorbed version and 1.5 amps of non-adsorbed. am interested in doing 4 shots at once now.

no any local reaction AT ALL, so it's a pity that at such many shots i'll be forced to switch to non-adsorbed version sooner or later, becoz of those lil pesky "beads" under the skin.

 

[Ninan]

Nice @hvac14400 !

I had a bit more energy and better mood for a few days. But I think it wore off after three days and then I was very depressed until 7PM the fourth day. My usual post adrenal triggering symptom. And my adrenal symptoms were better while it worked, that happens when something triggers them enough. So for me I think it was at least part cortisol but of course I can't be sure.

 

[Ninan]

If he could give this to researchers who would that be? If it might help his vaccine get approved he may go for it.

Gottfries? Or any of the others, really. Wouldn't most ME doctors/researchers love to get their hands on something like this? There are already two successful studies.

 

[hvac14400]

I had a bit more energy and better mood for a few days. But I think it wore off after three days and then I was very depressed until 7PM the fourth day.

yea, that sounds familiar, like

The overall effect peaks at the next day after the injection (wednesday).
It had largely worn off by Day 3 and the rest of the week was pretty uneventful except that the mood improvement was lasting.

But the injection on Day 15 brought some quick relieves.The effect lasted three day or so.

tho i can't second that. but am using much larger dosages right from the start, so maybe that explains the difference.