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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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Sonya Chowdhury in shock public defence of ME as a biomedical condition ;)

Glycon

World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet
Messages
299
Location
ON, Canada
But let's hear from the man himself!
Newton's Third Law of Motion informs that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. We all remember that from our high school physics, don't we.

When the city provided a "dog park", it quickly turned into a cess-pit of feces and urine.

Many visitors had ignored their dog's excrement.

Advent of rain resulted in a quagmire, resembling a sewerage farm. People were actually taking themselves, their children of all ages and their dogs into the pit and then returning home. Don't people have a sense of hygiene?

The city would have been better served, encouraging many of the overweight visitors, to exercise with their dogs, instead of caging them to gulp down Tim Horton's, smoke furiously and laze on one's posterior.

It is the detritus of humanity that is the destructive force in this world.

I cannot help but think that the community would be better served by the application of leashes, to more than a few of its residents.

The seemingly impotence of intellectual thought appears somewhat cowardly by the attacks on soft targets.

Whatever happened to "live and let live"? An uptight and ill-disciplined society requires, at least, some degree of rationality. Excessive rules and regulations degenerate into more dysfunction.

Haven't you all noticed?

-Tim Jordan

Grande Prairie

GAWD! Can you imagine being married to this man?!?! :eek:
 

Glycon

World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet
Messages
299
Location
ON, Canada
He obtained his medical training in Zimbabwe, graduated in 1981.

Rhodesia, thank you very much! ;)

And now, the money shot!

meetup.com 2016-10-10 16-25-20.png


And yes, I am sure that "Dr. T. M. A. Jordan" is the same person. He signed both ways under yet another of his letters to the editor (wherein he complains about Canada's public health care system).

EDIT: More confirmation that T. M. A. Jordan is our man! :D
This week, I had occasion to call the RCMP to my residence.

I have no problem with dogs using my lawn as a defecating post, but I do expect their owners to clean up afterwards. The owner who was attached to the animal via a leash, proceeded to do the unthinkable and walk off, leaving the excrement where it sat (not realizing he was being watched).

Not being one to allow my personal space to be interfered with, I demanded it's removal, whereupon I was threatened with physical bodily harm. Hence my 911 call.

What is wrong with you Canadians? One wonders from which cave some of you eminated? The rest of Canadians try to distinguish themselves from Albertans and the reason is self-explanatory.

Upon returning to the scene of the crime, the owner proceeded to kick the mess into oblivion, leaving foot-prints on the pavement as he stomped home (photographs have been taken, recording the event).

I presume this confirms my adage, which is that the owners should be collared and leashed, not the dog.

-Dr. T. M. A. Jordan, Grande Prairie
 
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TigerLilea

Senior Member
Messages
1,147
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
He obtained his medical training in Zimbabwe, graduated in 1981.

Having spent much of his life in Britain I'm guessing that he also picked up some of the attitudes towards illness that seem to flourish in the UK.

Jordan moved to Canada four years ago. He grew up in what was then Rhodesia and spent much of his life in Britain.
 

TigerLilea

Senior Member
Messages
1,147
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
Rhodesia, thank you very much! ;)

And now, the money shot!

View attachment 17681

And yes, I am sure that "Dr. T. M. A. Jordan" is the same person. He signed both ways under yet another of his letters to the editor (wherein he complains about Canada's public health care system).

EDIT: More confirmation that T. M. A. Jordan is our man! :D
This man should seriously consider moving back to wherever he came from. He obviously doesn't like it here. :thumbdown:
 

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
Yet another reason to refer to Canada as the "Dark North" with respect to attitudes towards ME. I am ashamed.

"Dr Jordan, a medical doctor from Edmonton, Canada, posted his comment . . .

The action taken against the researchers appears to be a continued attempt to justify the condition as a disease entity, thereby creating an environment in which some form of personal gain may be achieved. Whether that gain is in the form of a financial incentive or to manipulate the research findings as a way of placing some distance between a possible underlying mental health or psychosomatic illness and a true physical illness is unknown. It obviously helps satisfy alleged sufferers to hear that it is not all in their head and that what symptoms are experienced must be seen as real and part of a real disease process.”

May I suggest we click to support Sonya's rebuttal here: http://www.bmj.com/content/354/bmj.i5053/rapid-responses
So far, she's slightly ahead of Dr. Jordan in "Likes".
I just submitted a response to Timothy Jordan to the BMJ
 

Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
The remark, if true, amongst the ratings comments that Devon doesn't want him must come as music to the ears of Devon residents. One down....
 

Yogi

Senior Member
Messages
1,132
[I said:
[/I]
May I suggest we click to support Sonya's rebuttal here: http://www.bmj.com/content/354/bmj.i5053/rapid-responses
So far, she's slightly ahead of Dr. Jordan in "Likes".

Not sure about that. At least Jordan openly ridicules ME and claims psychological, unlike SC who publicly says the opposite of what she does behind closed doors in private. Jordan is at least consistent of the contempt he holds pwme. SC more damaging to people with ME with two faces.
 

Forbin

Senior Member
Messages
966
I noticed this comment in the BMJ rapid response section:

Freedom of information: can researchers still promise control of participants’ data?
...Fibromyalgia would be a more apt description of the symptoms as no amount of manipulation is able to confirm myalgic encephalomyelitis as a condition that presents with any form of brain or spinal cord inflammation./

I guess he missed this paper:

BMC Neurol. 2005 Dec 1;5:22.
A Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - related proteome in human cerebrospinal fluid.
Baraniuk JN1, Casado B, Maibach H, Clauw DJ, Pannell LK, Hess S S.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2377/5/22

Anthony Komaroff summarized the findings of that paper before the Massachusetts CFIDS Association, saying:
“A whole group of proteins, in the brain, were found in 1/3 to 1/2 of patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome vs. none of the patients who were healthy - highly significant differences, statistically. And what those molecules - and others that I haven’t shown you for lack of space - say is that there is a low-grade inflammation going on in the brain. There is something in the brain that the immune system doesn’t like, doesn’t want to be there, it wants to get rid of, and that’s being reflected in these proteins in the spinal fluid.”

Quote starts at 4:14.

Proteomic Markers.jpg
 

Justin30

Senior Member
Messages
1,065
Someone needs to create a machine that mimics ME and have them ly bedbound with a ton of neuro symptoms, muscle wasting and immanciation then they will stop believing their own BS.

Have you not seen the pics of severe ME patients? Why do they have to be put on feeding tubes, have major immune abnormalities, endocrine abnormalities, brain lesions, whit matter spots, orthostatic intolerance, low blood volume, vitamin and mineral deficiences, amino acid deficiencies, muscle wasting and so much more?

What answer do u have for that Dr Jordan?

If these people would only wake up and say yes there is a disease process going on but I we dont know why it would be acceptable.

This behaviour by such Drs is just aweful and there outlook is skewed do you think we purposely want to lose our families, our hobbies, our jobs and ability to do daily tasks?
The world has people that have very twisted views and this disease has to be the biggest blundar in modern history as it afflicts millions sad....
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
Dr. Jordan sounds like the grumpier version of the CIHR reviewer.

Also, "alleged sufferers"?!?! o_O

I mean, even supposing that ME/CFS is a psychological disorder, what kind of doctor would say something like that?

It would be interesting to hear from Dr. Jordan's patients concerning what he could mean by "an insight not always available to others", which is allegedly provided by his experience with managing ME/CFS? (Or is Dr. Jordan an "alleged sufferer" himself, perhaps? The letter isn't particularly clearly written...)

Dr Jordan probably believes that the this patient group he believes are faking it for benefits are getting well cause they never got back to him after being so insulted. Its the kind of stupid thing this kind of dr tends to believe.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
Although I can't say with absolute certainty that I've found the "Rate MDs" profile for the doctor who posted the opinion in question, there is only one Dr. Tim Jordan registered with the Alberta College of Physicians and Surgeons. Here's a link to what a few of his patients had to say about him:

https://www.ratemds.com/doctor-ratings/3573319/Dr-Tim-Jordan-Grande Prairie-AB.html

Scroll down to mid-page -- two One Star ratings out of Five!

sounds like he's well loved by his patients haha

one of them comments
Doctor???????this person isn't even capable of being a doctor hes extremely ignorant will tell you to go to your own doctor calls u names out loud in emergency will verbally attack you in front of other patients why is he here??????? he tells the nursing staff my wife is nuts and refuses to help her if he is on call when are u going to fire this cruel person how many complaints do you need ????? devon doesn't want him here another non Canadian doctor here that should be treated himself for his dysfunction and coldness towards human beings hes a horrible person never mind doctor????"
 

Cheesus

Senior Member
Messages
1,292
Location
UK
Have you not seen the pics of severe ME patients? Why do they have to be put on feeding tubes, have major immune abnormalities, endocrine abnormalities, brain lesions, whit matter spots, orthostatic intolerance, low blood volume, vitamin and mineral deficiences, amino acid deficiencies, muscle wasting and so much more?

The only explanation i can possibly think of is that they must have faulty beliefs and deconditioning. There are no other explanations.

Oh, or they could be faking it for the benefit handout. Obvs.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
Dr. Timothy Jordan, ladies and gentlemen!

October 2007:


May 2010:


My initial hunch was right! Dr. Jordan is EXACTLY the kind of person who would accuse the chronically sick of trying to weasel their way into disability benefits for their "alleged suffering"!

"Jordan moved to Canada four years ago. He grew up in what was then Rhodesia and spent much of his life in Britain."

Probably friends of Wessely. 95% of the time we hear such crap we can usually trace the person to Wessely or to having an UK connection.