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Something different: Apparent real recoveries from Toby Morrison's CFS Health Centre in Australia

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by oryx-, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. oryx-

    oryx-

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    I've been doing some CFS research this past week and I found this forum which has been a huge comfort to find other people going through the same thing as me. But I found something else too, that has given me the first real hope I've had in a long time so I just had to share it here.

    I have a feeling it's not quite what people around here are looking for so it may not be well received, but considering how much I wish I found it years ago, I thought I'd share it anyway, just in case it helps someone.

    There is a guy in Australia named Toby Morrison who recovered from CFS and started a health center specifically to help other people recover too. They have many testimonials, including video ones.

    He has a different approach than the other treatment threads around here but I hope some people could be open to it. I think it's a more realistic and self-empowering approach. Instead of looking for a magic pill or supplement combination it's a holistic method of getting to the root of health and recovery, including the mental component. I've never heard of anyone actually recovering from some combination of pills or strange treatment. And I know personally the biggest recovery periods I've had have been following along the lines of what he is talking about. I do think the body has the capacity to heal itself if we give it the opportunity.

    An intro video about him: http://www.cfshealth.com/about-toby-morrison/
    His story: http://tobymorrisonhealth.com/about/

    His other videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/TobyTVCFS/videos

    I know a lot of people here are really focused on little details like specific nutrient levels, symptoms and medications and are still looking for that magic cure. But personally that approach never really got me anywhere and I still haven't seen a solid example of it working for anyone.

    For some reason I'm expecting negative replies from people who are not looking for this kind of approach, but I just have to post this anyway in case it inspires or helps someone else too.

    ;)
     
    Sharon1402 likes this.
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Mmm probably won't be received well, treatment sounds a lot like cbt/get which has a high failure rate for true ME. Reading his history sounds to me more like a type of burn out when u look at what his activity level was. Most healthy people would struggle with that type of activity.

    ME is generally some type of infectious onset not an over do it type of thing.

    I could be wrong but that's the vibe I get.

    These types of stories also appear to put the blame on the individual too. Sort of snap out of it, exercise will help , start slow and build up.

    spontaneous recoveries do happen. But it would be good to see before and after testing such as nk function, viral load etc showing improvement from this.

    I don't want to sound negative but it sounds more like recovery from burn out then ME.
     
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  3. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Different approach? This sounds like the same old: positive attitude + exercise. Every now and then someone will, by coincidence, get better while trying this.
     
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  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    One person feeling better does not a cure make, especially for this of us who can specifically point to an infection as the onset of their illness. If I could "think" this away I would have done it 20 years ago.

    I agree with @heapsreal and @A.B. coincidence and not really CFS to begin with.

    There's a thread here started a week or so ago about a guy in the UK who also used positive thinking to "cure" himself. I think my thoughts on that were bullshit.
     
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  5. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Thanks for sharing the link that inspired you. I had not heard of him before.

    Hundreds of blood tests!, crikey you are lucky if you get one in the UK.
     
  6. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hate to say this but Ugh! Another person promoting the same old, same old = GET/CBT:

    This is just not the way it works with ME--you don't "recondition" and get better. You get better (hopefully) and then start to recondition. Seeing something like this is actually depressing to me--especially seeing an ex-patient trying to sell a program to other patients.

    Sushi
     
  7. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    These are probably cases of post-viral fatigue that eventually resolve on their own, and the people just happen to be doing this treatment program at the time. If the testimonials are even real. One claims going from bedridden to competing in athletics in 9 months.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
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  8. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    He did have viral onset and months in bed, hundreds if blood tests followed by the M.E. Diagnosis.

    It would be nice to know more of precise protocol and more medical info.
     
  9. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    @golden I wasn't able to read the entire article (sleep deprived) but I still don't believe it. Many people test positive for infections but it doesn't create a problem for them. I agree with the others here.

    And people who don't want to share their specific protocol are suspect IMO.
     
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  10. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    The important issue here is not Toby Morrison and his protocol.
    His life will be as it will be. He may convince people of this treatment and they will respond according to what their illness dictates.

    The real question is, what are you going to do?
    You are young and have your life ahead of you and what I see in this (and what I say is my reading of the situation and my opinion)
    is that you are scared and don't want to be sick with something that you have come to be aware from reading here? there is no easy cure/path/road to travel with this illness.

    Better to have something that can be cured with a straightforward easy to understand set of instructions.
    Really, for all our antipathy, it's what we all long for.

    I know you're from Canada and therefore treatment options are so very limited. I would suggest that if you are not totally housebound and if you have some discretionary money available that you seek first to eliminate the possibility of other diagnoses with an MD (any other diagnosis may have the possibility of a treatment) and then pursue lab tests for things like lyme. There is plenty of help here for how to move forward on those two things.

    regards,
    SD
     
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  11. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    You have not been on PR very long so you probably haven't read the "solid examples" of medications working for patients who are getting treatment from the top ME/CFS specialists. These treatments are not "little details", nor are they magic cures. They are serious medications for serious medical conditions. There are plenty of solid examples if you look for them.

    Toby Morrison's health center sounds far more like a claim to having a magic cure than conventional medicine does. In fact, it's so magical that we can't even find out what the protocol is, much less whether there's any science behind it. That reads magical thinking, not science, to me.
     
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  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Especially if misdiagnosed. Misdiagnosis using weak definitions seems to be at over 70%. Yet even then, studies like the PACE and FINE trials do not show any actual functional improvement that is not beyond the bias range.

    I have seen miracle cures come and go, many times. I have also seen really bad evidence touted as evidence based medicine.

    Depending on what is wrong with someone, such treatments might indeed have a beneficial effect. However, having paid your money and not recovered, do you get a refund? Do they accept responsibility, with financial compensation, if you decline? How would you go about fighting them in a court of law? These approaches have probably led to deaths, and to such severe disability that the patients are much worse off.

    We need large controlled RCTs that use objective outcome measures, though asking for double blinding is usually not applicable as these are not drug therapies. Testimonials are great if buying a used car, but would you really buy one without having a mechanic do an inspection?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
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  13. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Community Support Volunteer

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    @Oryx I have to agree with what everyone else has stated and his website looks like a slick repackaging of CBT and GET. I would hate to see you invest your limited energy and money to be hurt by a guy like this and his treatment.

    If you can be tested for active herpes and other viruses, Lyme, and other treatable symptoms, I think that is the way to go. There are also lots of co-morbid conditions with ME/CFS which can be treated.

    I am in no way against therapy and interventions to help cope with all of the loss, grief, depression, and anxiety that are the by-products of having a long term chronic illness (and I am a social worker/ therapist myself!). It is just very concerning and a red flag to me when someone touts these interventions as a cure for CFS.
     
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  14. Quokka

    Quokka

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    I think the most telling point is his disclaimer at the bottom of the Melbourne Outpatients page:-

    CFS health centre and Toby Morrison are not responsible for your own health. This site is designed to give you the tools and education to help you, help yourself to a better quality of life and daily function. Please read carefully the points below 1. CFS Health Centre and its websites are not giving medical advice. 2. The online recovery program is not a program of medical treatment. 3. If you have medical concerns, you should see your own medical practitioner. 4. If at any time you consider your condition to be worsening, do seek medical advice straight away. No liability is accepted for loss or damage. No responsibility is taken for loss or damage.

    Toby Morrison's 'cure' is about - managing symptoms and increasing daily function by teaching skills and knowledge. Look at his help on sleeping (http://www.cfshealth.com/sleep-and-sleeping-with-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/).

    The Western Australian government has a tip sheet for sleep hygiene. http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/Info-sleep hygiene.pdf. This is a more detailed and comprehensive list of tips for good sleep and I just did a quick and dirty search on the internet. Just 5 helpful tips for sleep hygiene doesn't say much for the depth of information you're likely to receive from Toby Morrison's courses.

    I can pretty much guarantee anybody newly diagnosed with CFS/ME can benefit by simple, effective and handy hints for good health because very few people live with perfect mental and physical health hygiene before they got ill. I suspect the information you will receive through Toby Morrison's courses will be good and useful stuff but you can get all that information through the web and on this site, plus more, at no cost.

    The one plus point in favour of doing a course like this is it's likely to be structured and have someone to hold your hand as you go through it. That can be comforting if you're feeling isolated and alone. Balance that with the love and support you'll receive through sites like this.

    When I got ill 6 years ago, these people were advertising live-in treatment courses for thousands and thousands of dollars. They offered spa treatments and pool therapy, nutrition advice and motivational classes. I thought long and hard about it but decided I had a medical condition that required a deeper and more physiologically based treatment than what CFS health centre offered.

    Instead, I went to the leading CFS specialist in Melbourne and while progress has been slow, I am improving. All the treatments are based on science and help with the core difficulties of the illness. The good health hygiene I take care of by using the internet and sites like Phoenix Rising to point me in the right direction.

    Sorry for the long post, hope it helps you to assess the usefulness of this particular treatment for your illness.
     
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  15. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay

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    There are plenty of very negative stories out there from people who have tried his course or have spoken to him if you look.

    Given that he doesn't have any medical qualifications (as far as I can tell), his program is not based on any solid scientific research and could be dangerous (indeed, exercise made my condition significantly worse) and is very expensive, there's no way I would be signing up for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  16. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    In fact, most/all of us tried some variation of CBT/GET, whether with a doc or on our own, already. We know the uses and the limits of positive thinking (or realistic and compassionate thinking, in the best form) and activity management (for good or ill, depending on the form it takes and whether we are improving at the time) for our particular cases.
     
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  17. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    What is the cost he chargers for this cure?
     
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  18. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    This guys case if one reads his story, does in fact sound like a fairly typical ME case. Probably one of those lucky cases in which the person recovered, not necessarily throu what he was doing (Dr Cheney talks about many of his patients going throu a spontanous remission.. and I had a remission too but doing the opposite to what this guy is proposes doing. My remission was throu aggressive rest therapy, forcing myself to have a daily sleep etc etc).

    He's in for a shocker if he finds he gets the illness back like a lot of us do and cant fix it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Im in Australia and so is several of the others who has responsed to this. I notice that NONE of us seem to have ever heard of this guy and his centre (so I think that itself says something).

    Well then maybe his ideas are for you then. For myself, things he's suggesting dont help me at all and in fact if I followed things he's suggesting, I'd probably end up in hospital again!. eg he suggests to get active in something I was just reading. Im often already too active which makes me worst.

    The advice he's giving, seems to be quite simple advice, things most already tried as commonly found online.
     
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  20. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    The course may well be helpful in terms of managing illness (depending on how it is structured), but I do strongly start to question things when the word 'recovery' is mentioned. If you want to claim recovery of a particular method then you'd better provide more than just anecdotal evidence.

    Not everyone undergoing the programme may have the same condition and not everyone is so lucky to recover.

    The guy seems genuine enough, but if he is claiming it will lead to recovery then he is still making money off the back of claims he won't be able to deliver.

     
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