The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
Over the Hills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Someone with fluent english please interpret (medicine)

Discussion in 'Information and Resources' started by Azrael, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael

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    Hi everyone

    I'm dead tired and feel awful...

    Can someone interpret what exactly they mean with histamine receptor 3 and the human heart. I know they talk about proteins and calcium channels as well...but..

    Bottomline for me is following:

    What stimulates the heart MORE

    histamine H3 antagonist or agonist ?

    Quote from:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788879
    http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/77/1/206

    I know antagonist effect at h3 results in more neurotransmitters being used/allocated...

    Like acetylcholine, dopamine, noradrenaline, serotonin, gaba

    Therefor it would be logical to me that an antagonist would stimulate the heart more...

    and that an agonist effect would decrease heart rate = less stimulation.

    I'm on to something here that can literally save me...I just need another confirmation...

    Thanks for your help :)
     
  2. Azrael

    Azrael

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  3. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Am following this thread now b/c anything re: histamine and calcium channels relates to my situation. I have fluent English (but not fluent science LOL) so will also wait for someone smarter than me to interpret...
     
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  4. Azrael

    Azrael

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    Hi Gingergirl

    If you're interested...

    About my present situation

    I have low heart rate at the moment, stomach doesn't work either, very tired, feels like I could sleep any time but I cant cause my breathing gets interrupted the second I fall a sleep, waking up I just need to survive 3 more days then my first supp arrives. Oh and no healthcare available....and it's free. I feel very unsafe/insecure.

    If I die, the one I feel sorry about is my mother. But I fight every day now. I hope things will resolve for me. If I'm better in a few months I'll leave the country for good, after all I'm insured and a citizen but the politicians have plundered the services completely. I don't want to be hurt more cause of politicians and bad leadership.
     
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  5. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    Our symptoms are very different and I have POTS and without a beta blocker, my HR goes extremely high (often into the 160's). From your description of your breathing problem, have you been tested for sleep apnea? Which supplement are you waiting for? I am so sorry about your healthcare situation.

    I was curious about your articles b/c I know from having MCAS (mast cell disease) that there are four types of histamine receptors (H1, H2, H3 and H4) but at present to the best of my knowledge, there are only blockers for H1 and H2 but nothing to block the H3 and H4 receptors. I plan to look at your links in more detail (I was not at home when I posted earlier) but I still know that I lack the science to be of any help.

    This made me so sad to read and am praying that you will figure out a way to get medical help. When I think of the people who would be most affected if I died, I think my mother would take it the hardest as well.

    Do you mean that you would leave your country and come to the U.S. for healthcare (or is that not what you meant)?
     
    Azrael likes this.
  6. Azrael

    Azrael

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    Also sounds awful what you're having Ginger, hang in there. So we have more or less opposite heart rate. I remember reading about POTS before just touching the surface of the topic.

    Did you at one time take blood work on histamine levels? I know sometimes it's not that easy but still...what's blood pressure like? I know there's a lot of blood pressure decreasing supplements, have no idea if you tried some in the past.

    Sleep apnea I never tested for but I don't have it, would have been easier though....maybe. I got so much gas in my stomach and chest so when I fall asleep and relax I wake up from that interfering with my breathing.If my stomach gets well I sleep well too. The part with the heart is, well a new thing that I think is involved with histamine. I got a bad reaction 4 weeks ago from a probiotic a bacteria I'm missing completely, it was terrible I'm still suffering from the impact. I still do think this probiotic is very important to me but I need to decrease amounts and take them when I feel a little better. It could also be that this reaction was the natural way of my body to deal with it, something new coming in that it haven't seen for MANY years.

    The first supplement I'm trying for this situation is "quercetin" to get rid of histamine and maybe it will also fix stomach. At least it's a try. I will begin very slowly and stop if I sense bad vibes from it.

    I read quercetin is good for heart too but not sure about my heart rate cause I don't want it too decrease further.

    For you: https://draxe.com/quercetin/ https://selfhacked.com/2016/07/26/22-scientifically-proven-benefits-quercetin/

    As you can see it is good for heart and many other things.

    Yes I have read and gone through and researched all this myself. I figured I would pick up knowledge of all the histamine receptors just like you have. During these last days I have picked up information of a herb that blocks H3 called "Yamoa" according to some it is quite potent but I would be very careful as your heart rate might go up further if you decided to try it...also sold on ebay/amazon

    http://www.yamoapowder.com/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2749908/


    Warms my heart when I read that. Thank you so much for your kind words.

    I will leave Sweden for good, priorities are messed up here. Leaving for Germany to be around my close ones, it's what matters to me, plus Germany still have good healthcare. Germany might not be the end of the road though, have to discuss the future with the others.

    Night, have to try sleep now...won't be an easy matter...
     
    Gingergrrl likes this.
  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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  8. caledonia

    caledonia

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    It's possible that some baking soda water could help with at least the gas, if not also the bad reaction to the probiotic.

    If you decide to try it, follow the instructions on the box for making baking soda into an antacid (I think it's something like 1/2 tsp of baking soda in an 8 ounce glass of water.

    Then sip a little very slowly first to make sure it's tolerated.
     
  9. Azrael

    Azrael

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    Hey

    Was reading about this as well last few days. I have one here at home, but it contains other ingredients as well:

    Tetrasodium pyrophosphate
    Potato Starch
    and then the one neutralizing gas.

    Is it still good ?
     
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member

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    I cannot work out what the question is here. Histamine recptors may be involved in cardiac function but that is a million miles away from suggesting using any particular - especially when there is no medical diagnosis. Taking drugs for cardiac problems without detailed diagnosis is not a good idea.
     
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  11. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I think you're thinking baking powder? instead of baking soda.

    It should say sodium bicarbonate.
     
  12. Azrael

    Azrael

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    This is not something taken out of the sky. Diagnose here in sweden is totally overrated. I have been forced to diagnose myself. Nearly collapsed today, extreme muscle weakness. I'm screwed....:(

    Alright thanks.
     
  13. Azrael

    Azrael

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    I have begged many times for help in my country, without getting any.

    All they do is scratch on the surface.
     
  14. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member

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    Sweden probably has as good a health care system as anywhere. You say yo have been forced to diagnose yourself but with cardiac problems that is not usually realistic. This forum has rule about not giving medical advice but sometimes it is reasonable for members to make general comments. I do not see how anyone can help unless we actually know what problems you are having. This is a forum for ME/CFS, which does not involve specific cardiac problems as far as I am aware.
     
  15. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I have had several blood histamine levels taken and at the highest, it was 4x the normal level but now it is in the normal range. My prostaglandin markers are still very elevated even though I have no allergic reactions whatsoever at this time. You asked about my blood pressure and it runs very low. Prior to IVIG it was about 80/50 for 2-3 years but now it is about 100/70 which is much more comfortable for me. I take a beta blocker, Atenolol, for POTS (but it is not for high BP which I have never had).

    You're right it sounds very different but from your initial description, I thought it might be sleep apnea.

    I have taken Quercetin for over two years with no issues. I used to take 2000 mg per day but now I only take 500 mg per day.

    There is a definite link with Kounis Syndrome or "allergic angina" but am not sure if this is what the original poster was asking about?

    From my understanding it often involves POTS and autonomic problems that affect the heart. I had ischemia on a cardiac treadmill test in 2014 b/c we suspect that I did not have enough blood volume to the heart and lungs when I stand. We now believe this is all due to autoantibodies (in my case) b/c of the dramatic improvement from IVIG. I do agree though that there is usually not traditional cardiac problems in ME/CFS vs. autonomic problems that can affect cardiac functioning.
     
  16. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    It is impossible to generalize that any drug or supplement is "good for heart" as, whether it is or not is very specific to what is going on with your heart. You say that you have "a low heart rate," what is your resting heart rate and have you seen a cardiologist? Heart conditions are not something to attempt to self treat.
     
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  17. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    I should clarify that I took Quercetin b/c it is a natural antihistamine and helps with allergic reactions. It was not for a Cardiac issue in my case.
     

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